Erwin's 550 Liter LLT / 13 Hz / Maelstrm 18" - Page 6 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #51 of 77 Old 02-21-12, 12:42 PM
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Re: Erwin's 550 Liter LLT / 13 Hz / Maelström 18"

A high pass filter is for a ported system where the tuning frequency is above 15 hz, this protects the driver from over excursion at the lower frequencies. Since your tuning frequency is 13 hz you don't need one.

EBS = Extended Bass Shelf - which is a specific ported alignment. A definition of it can be found here:

http://www.diysubwoofers.org/prt/ported5.htm




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post #52 of 77 Old 02-21-12, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Erwin's 550 Liter LLT / 13 Hz / Maelström 18"

Quote:
Mike P. wrote: View Post
A high pass filter is for a ported system where the tuning frequency is above 15 hz, this protects the driver from over excursion at the lower frequencies. Since your tuning frequency is 13 hz you don't need one.

EBS = Extended Bass Shelf - which is a specific ported alignment. A definition of it can be found here:

http://www.diysubwoofers.org/prt/ported5.htm
Thanks for enlightening me, Mike!

Slowly building a 9.2.4 HT with 3 DIYSG Titan LX LCR, 2 LLT subs (done) and much, much more...
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post #53 of 77 Old 02-29-12, 07:56 AM
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Re: Erwin's 550 Liter LLT / 13 Hz / Maelström 18"

Hi Erwin : I havent seen the original DTQWT - and did not understand.
Do you build the DTQWT with 2 12 inch Eminence woofers ?
And you add the 18 inch Maelström Subwoofer ?

Or did you integrate everything in the same enclosure ?

How do the basses sound like that ? Do you still have enough volume in the treble range ?
How large is the room where you installed the system ?

I plan to build a pair of DTQWT-12 myself and I heard that the bass of the standard box is already
very present.

Please let us know what additional benefit you have from increasing the bassrange with a 18 inch subwoofer.

What is Troels reaction to your "down"-grade to the 18 inch cave ?

Did you find the building of the speaker difficult, how is the documentation ?

Thanks a lot and congrats to your spectacular project !
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post #54 of 77 Old 02-29-12, 08:58 AM
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Re: Erwin's 550 Liter LLT / 13 Hz / Maelström 18"

Hi again Erwin.
I am watching your thread from time to time and have noted that this is a slow process, but you havent given up yet. Looking forward to see your system finished

My two Maelstrom subwoofer build tread:
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post #55 of 77 Old 02-29-12, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Erwin's 550 Liter LLT / 13 Hz / Maelström 18"

Quote:
Napkin Kohl wrote: View Post
Hi Erwin : I havent seen the original DTQWT - and did not understand.
Do you build the DTQWT with 2 12 inch Eminence woofers ?
And you add the 18 inch Maelström Subwoofer ?

Or did you integrate everything in the same enclosure ?

How do the basses sound like that ? Do you still have enough volume in the treble range ?
How large is the room where you installed the system ?

I plan to build a pair of DTQWT-12 myself and I heard that the bass of the standard box is already
very present.

Please let us know what additional benefit you have from increasing the bassrange with a 18 inch subwoofer.

What is Troels reaction to your "down"-grade to the 18 inch cave ?

Did you find the building of the speaker difficult, how is the documentation ?

Thanks a lot and congrats to your spectacular project !
Thanks for asking...

I have yet to start building them! The idea is to build a whole 11.2 speaker system.

*DTQWT-12 for L+R
*DTQWT-10 for Wide L+R and Surround L+R
*custom center (behind Acoustic transparent screen) that's as capable as the "12" (more on that when I get there, don't hold your breath)

subtotal: 7

I have the parts for the "basic" TQWT since a year, but no time to make the boxes. In the mean time, I changed the room layout a bit, hence the spot for the TQWT as back surrounds L+R is now occupied by a table... Hence I will build the "Quattro" instead, which is a 40 liter standmount that I will hang up upside down from the ceiling. I will use the TQWT kit to upgrade it to a DTQWT-10 kit (as a matter of fact, I just ordered the crossover for the woofers past weekend)

subtotal: 9

I was going to use B&W CCM 7.5 in ceilings for Height LR. But I will make Quattro's (with a 18° slope so the tweeters point bang at MLP) and put them also upside down on the ceiling..

total with LLT's: 11.2

So the LLT are a totally different enclosure (just download my floorplan from p1) to see the floor plan, I will post an update sometime soon

Troels is totally aware of my plans. He's not a HT guy, but he is curious how the whole system turns out. Did you know he never built those DTQWT-12 himself? If you read his website he claims even a double 15" version would be possible. If I am not mistaken, those would be like H = 225 cm (7.5 feet) x D = 75 cm (30") x W = 40 cm (16"). Cool, but even my large HT is to small for them so I didn't pursue that idea.

My reference is the B&W CT800 system. It is totally above my price league (100-200K€) but I see how big and powerfull those speakers are (reccom power : 1000 Watt each). If you build big speakers, you need big subs too or else you might as well not bother at all.

Another cool brand is PMC. These are somehow the same design as the TQWT and also avalable in humongeous sizes. There's no substitute for cubic inches afterall! Big speakers give you huge soundstage and the all important 80-200 Hz region will be a big deal. I read papers where listeners experienced panning effects (moving objects) down to 45 Hz. Hence I need speakers that go that deep.

Slowly building a 9.2.4 HT with 3 DIYSG Titan LX LCR, 2 LLT subs (done) and much, much more...
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post #56 of 77 Old 02-29-12, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Erwin's 550 Liter LLT / 13 Hz / Maelström 18"

Quote:
Bugster wrote: View Post
Hi again Erwin.
I am watching your thread from time to time and have noted that this is a slow process, but you havent given up yet. Looking forward to see your system finished
Thanks!

I am spending the next 3 days at the building site to finish the window frames, move 12 big "double door closets" we made into the basement and install a large sliding door to separate the garage from the storage in the basement!

Fingers crossed that I can start to build the first DTQWT-10 pair after that... I am determinded to setup the HT next January. That means that in 4 months the ouside of the house needs to be done, in 7 months all the technical wiring/piping and thermal insulation in the house etc done, which leaves 3 months to finish the ground level floor with drywall and flooring etc. After which I can do the HT!

Slowly building a 9.2.4 HT with 3 DIYSG Titan LX LCR, 2 LLT subs (done) and much, much more...
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post #57 of 77 Old 03-01-12, 03:49 AM
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Hello Erwin, now I understand.

This is going to be the Rocket III of surround systems. Just a reflection : will the balance be preserved between high and low frequencies ? The two 18" subwoofers will give quite some bass. Did you discuss this with Mr Gravesen ? on one side, you could add treble to the DTQWT ( isn't this a poetic name ? ) by either doubling the TW034's or by replacing it with a row of tweeters in a linear array ( 4-6 ribbons or tweeters), there is enough space on the front of the cabinet. For the bass, I wonder if an open baffle with the two 18 inch would have produced enough bottom and pressure, but increasing space and depth - again Mr Gravesen has designed such kits OB11 I believe. btw is it possible to install the subwoofer into the wall, both sides free to the air ? This would eliminate all side effects of the OB concepts, no interferences or cancellations. But the sound would be in the second room too.
Anyway, great project and iron will, indeed.

Last edited by Napkin Kohl; 03-01-12 at 05:50 AM.
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post #58 of 77 Old 03-01-12, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Hello Erwin, now I understand.

Quote:
Napkin Kohl wrote: View Post
This is going to be the Rocket III of surround systems. Just a reflection : will the balance be preserved between high and low frequencies ? The two 18" subwoofers will give quite some bass. Did you discuss this with Mr Gravesen ? on one side, you could add treble to the DTQWT ( isn't this a poetic name ? ) by either doubling the TW034's or by replacing it with a row of tweeters in a linear array ( 4-6 ribbons or tweeters), there is enough space on the front of the cabinet. For the bass, I wonder if an open baffle with the two 18 inch would have produced enough bottom and pressure, but increasing space and depth - again Mr Gravesen has designed such kits OB11 I believe. btw is it possible to install the subwoofer into the wall, both sides free to the air ? This would eliminate all side effects of the OB concepts, no interferences or cancellations. But the sound would be in the second room too.
Anyway, great project and iron will, indeed.
I most likely will choose a 11.2 pre-pro with Audyssey XT32. This measures the output of each speaker including the subs. The volume of the sub needs to be adjusted to 75 dB before XT32 can finish it's magic. So I have no worries at all about the balance of the frequencies. On the contrary, I feel a 3-way speaker with 12" woofers should be complemented by a sub (or 2) that can go one deeper. My current (commercial) system has a 12" (30 cm) sub. The LR use single woofers of 16,5 cm (6.5"). That's a much bigger difference. I have to inform you that a third sub is on my mind but will only come into play after the rest of the system is evaluated.

If only there would be a 11.2 pre-pro... I hope Marantz will do a AV 8006 or 8007 this year with the processor of the Denon (same company) 4311. Other options are a used Denon AVP (9.3 with 3 subs, but no height and wide together, just one of the 2 but it is the nec+ultra of the pre-pro's), or the Onkyo PR SC5509 (9.2 and does height+wide). Or else, the 4311 in pre-pro mode (full 11,2).

For the rest: I don't have the skills to modify a proven concept. Troels knows his thing even it's only a hobby for him. I might change the shape of the box a bit, but not the baffle width or so, let alone the crossover.

Slowly building a 9.2.4 HT with 3 DIYSG Titan LX LCR, 2 LLT subs (done) and much, much more...
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post #59 of 77 Old 03-01-12, 02:08 PM
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Re: Erwin's 550 Liter LLT / 13 Hz / Maelström 18"

This is going to be a fun build to watch! Your work on those enclosures are impressive! I can't wait to be able to start some projects like this (though I'm sure you have many headaches associated with building a house that I don't envy)!
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post #60 of 77 Old 04-28-12, 02:39 PM
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Re: Erwin's 550 Liter LLT / 13 Hz / Maelström 18"

Those are monsters well done.
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