Horn Sub Input Please - Build In Progress! - Page 21 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #201 of 261 Old 03-12-14, 01:54 PM
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re: Horn Sub Input Please - Build In Progress!

True, but if you have read any studies on dynamic range in music, or played with live instruments, brass, pipe organ there are very high crest factors in music.

They are quick, and transient in nature. They start and stop quickly.

But what you end up with is a very clean, exceptionally dynamic system.

Think cultured Klipsch horns. Without all the short comings from all the compromised horns. Your system has few compromises, and that will include the front channels.

Going to have to build this system myself.

Muhaahhhaaaa My kids are gone, moved out.

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post #202 of 261 Old 03-13-14, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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re: Horn Sub Input Please - Build In Progress!

Here is where I am at now in my thinking of the 3 Front flanking subs;

Option 1: This is the way the system is currently setup, with each main speaker (LCR) having its own dedicated flanking sub, with each channel and respective sub getting its own dedicated information.

Option 2: Have all flanking subs receive a summed signal of the LCR information, crossed over above the Schroder frequency which would be between 140-160 Hz.

The thinking of going with option #2 is;

1. To even out the bass response and avoid large nulls and peaks in the region of 60-150 Hz, on bass information that is originating from those channels. When only one woofer and main speaker is playing this is slightly alleviated, but the more bass sources, the more even this will become.

2. From my limited amount of reading, it appears that most mix engineers already sum bass signals to a mono channel instead of sending stereo bass to the LCR speakers.

3. The flanking subs are located at the front of the theater, below the main channels, so localization should not be an issue.

4. The wavelength of a 160 Hz signal is +-7ft, my Max spacing is 6'10" so the signals will sum and won't be localized (hopefully)

Opinions.....??
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post #203 of 261 Old 03-13-14, 06:23 PM
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re: Horn Sub Input Please - Build In Progress!

Here is my two cents.

For movies, I understand that in the Dolby 7.1 specs the signals for each channel are potentially full range. Each channel can be used as a full spectrum frequency source. So potentially in movies this would be the ideal situation. For each channel to be able to reproduce the complete bandwidth of music

Each of the front speakers gets a discrete sub.

To throw in a monkey wrench, most popular music, and a fair bit of classical music is recorded in mono in the first place. If you think about how stereo recording works for a minute you will immediately agree.

When you go to a concert or watch a music video that shows recording the artists, how many mics are present? Leaving out the drum set, you usually have one mic per instrument.

The principal behind a stereo recording is to create an acceptable approximation of the original even. There are usually only two mics in a true stereo recording. It is the differences in sound intensity picked up at the microphone, the angle of the intensity and the degree of reflections from the original playing venue that recreate the illusion of being there. You canna due it with one mic!

Modern studios for popular music use a very different, and yet pleasing method. They use a dead or very controlled acoustic environment. They use one mic to pick up each player or vocalist. To create a stereo illusion they spread the monaural source between the two channels, and distort the phase or timing of the original signal between the two speakers. This creates a type of sort of stereo. So that the sound is not completely dead they use added reverberation. There are many reasons why. One is that it is easier to make multiple takes when you have a very uniform set of reflections coming towards the microphone. Another reason is that you can record individual performers on a multi-track setup and mix the results until you like the additions, subtractions and so on. Two channel stereo micing requires very skilled musicians, and equally skilled recording engineers. It's no secret that technology has created a real dumbing down of the skill set required to get things done. Ask and machinist, programmer, carpenter, cabinetmaker, or engineer that is over 50 and you will get an earful.

To the nut of the issue.

If your recording engineer has summed the bass to mono, you will have the same signal in each bass channel in either setup.

If the movie you are wanting to watch has discrete low frequency effects and you set it up so each L--C--R channel has it's own bass section you will be getting the best of all possible choices.

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post #204 of 261 Old 03-14-14, 03:36 PM
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re: Horn Sub Input Please - Build In Progress!

I wonder how many people actually run 8 channels of sub in their hts???
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post #205 of 261 Old 03-14-14, 05:27 PM
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re: Horn Sub Input Please - Build In Progress!

This is very far from your ordinary Home Theater installation.

It is the closest thing to ultimate state of the art I have ever been associated with.

And I have been in the business of designing and building sound systems since 1989.

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post #206 of 261 Old 03-14-14, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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re: Horn Sub Input Please - Build In Progress!

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post #207 of 261 Old 03-20-14, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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re: Horn Sub Input Please - Build In Progress!

Well I have decided to make some changes to the electronics end of the theater. Currently I have a Integra DTC-9.8 Pre feeding multiple QSC amps, with all the horn speakers, all that power is not needed.

I will be using a Oppo BDP-103 with a vanity lite output card installed as my preamp. I only have 3 sources anyhow and all are hdmi, so I will be feeding my HTPC, and HD-DVD player through a HDMI switch to the HDMI input on the oppo. The oppo then will send 8 channel PCM from the vanity lite card, to the minidsp Sharc chips for crossover, and FIR filtering.

The whole front end now will be digital without a bunch of un needed conversions.

To compliment this I am going to be building new amps for all speakers, except the surrounds which will use a 4 channel PLX amp, due to there lower sensitivity and power requirement.

I will be building 9x First Watt/Nelson Pass F5 Class A 25 watt amps which will power the LCR H/M/L Speakers.
I will be building a 2 channel Ovation-NX Class AB 100 watt amp to power the ULF and Rear Flanking subs.

My idea is, all power transformers will be in there own 2u rack chassis which will feed the voltage out to the amps and rack chassis which will house the miniSharc's and DAC's.

Each Amp will be in a 4ru chassis and will include 3 class a amps, and 3 power supply boards. The amps will be mounted on heatsinks and will be actively cooled ( which is no problem, racks are in different room) the fans will be fed from a adjustable power supply board located in the DAC/Minisharc enclosure.

The subwoofer amp will only have 2 class AB amps and 1 power board in that chassis.

Gonna be a lot of soldering

PS don't laugh at the BIG GREEN BLOCK PCBS. Just wanted to model dimensions. LOL
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post #208 of 261 Old 03-20-14, 04:32 PM
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re: Horn Sub Input Please - Build In Progress!

Quite the task to achieve. Should be awesome when done. I have looked at building some of the Pass amps in the past but have never gotten started on one yet. So I look forward to your build pics when you do get started.

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post #209 of 261 Old 03-20-14, 08:34 PM
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re: Horn Sub Input Please - Build In Progress!

So the green blocks????








Had to do it!

You have a lot of work set up for yourself sir.

You will want to be very sure that you will have enough current to drive them all.

Your Oppo player is supposed to drive them all?

I see that you will be splitting off the signal from the Mini Sharc.

That may work.

I'll check and see if there are any specs on drive current on the output channels of that little beast.

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post #210 of 261 Old 03-21-14, 01:13 AM
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Hi I'm new to this forum
I'm designing a horn style bandpass home theatre sub
I'd greatly appreciate any input

Horn Sub Input Please - Build In Progress!-image-1729283469.jpg
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