Need help planning a DIY sub build - Page 4 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #31 of 70 Old 04-13-14, 09:57 PM
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Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build

FYI: I'm only seeing a little over 3% sag for the SI, so either way it's a moot point and is OK for down-firing.
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post #32 of 70 Old 04-13-14, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build

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areyou4real wrote: View Post
FYI: I'm only seeing a little over 3% sag for the SI, so either way it's a moot point and is OK for down-firing.
Rock on. I think I will pull the trigger on the 15's later this week. Have them shipped to work for now and wait till I have everything ready to roll before making any moves....

Trying to sell off some of my other gear (turntable, car amp) that will more than fund the remainder of the build. Then sell my existing sub and cables and I will be good.

Probably have a one off set of speakon sub cables made by a buddy of mine to fit the iNukes and then the sub perfectly.

Can somebody link me to the SI 15" D4 winisd file?

Last edited by EndersShadow; 04-13-14 at 10:18 PM.
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post #33 of 70 Old 04-13-14, 10:32 PM
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Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build

I am using T/S found at http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=60

Pe is not listed, but is given as 600 W on same page.

Says D2, but likely models very close to D4.

Input order as per WinISD help file; be sure to let it autocalc as you add.

The suggested procedure for entering driver parameters is following (check first that "Auto calculate unknowns" option is checked):

1. Enter Mms and Cms

This gives fs. If either is not available, then enter fs and other parameter.

2. Enter Sd, Bl and Re

Now, you should get all but Qms (and Qts), Vas. Please note that Vas may not match exactly what is specified by manufacturer, because exact value of Vas depends on environmental parameters. See FAQ.

3. Enter Rms or Qms.

Either one will do, although I tend to prefer Qms over Rms, because it can usually be measured in driver measurement procedures.

4. Enter Hc, Hg and Pe.

If Hc or Hg or either is available, then enter Xmax and optionally either Hc or Hg if available.

5. Enter number of voicecoils.

This procedure is most accurate. Also note that it also calculates true SPL (1W/1m) value. So it might not match the marketing SPL value, which is generally somewhat vague. Not in all cases, though.

6. Correct Znom, if necessary.
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post #34 of 70 Old 04-13-14, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
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areyou4real wrote: View Post
I am using T/S found at http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=60

Pe is not listed, but is given as 600 W on same page.

Says D2, but likely models very close to D4.

Input order as per WinISD help file; be sure to let it autocalc as you add.

The suggested procedure for entering driver parameters is following (check first that "Auto calculate unknowns" option is checked):

1. Enter Mms and Cms

This gives fs. If either is not available, then enter fs and other parameter.

2. Enter Sd, Bl and Re

Now, you should get all but Qms (and Qts), Vas. Please note that Vas may not match exactly what is specified by manufacturer, because exact value of Vas depends on environmental parameters. See FAQ.

3. Enter Rms or Qms.

Either one will do, although I tend to prefer Qms over Rms, because it can usually be measured in driver measurement procedures.

4. Enter Hc, Hg and Pe.

If Hc or Hg or either is available, then enter Xmax and optionally either Hc or Hg if available.

5. Enter number of voicecoils.

This procedure is most accurate. Also note that it also calculates true SPL (1W/1m) value. So it might not match the marketing SPL value, which is generally somewhat vague. Not in all cases, though.

6. Correct Znom, if necessary.
Gotcha. There is a D2 file on the forum. I will grab that and use it tomorrow.

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post #35 of 70 Old 04-14-14, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build

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Re: Output. Bosso's chart covers a variety of room sizes, 1000ft - 6000 ft3; nevertheless, you can see room gain generally seems to start around 40 Hz and conservatively rises about 6 or 7 dB per octave from there. So add 6 or 7 dB to your simulations at 20 Hz to get an idea of what to expect for room gain.
Good to know. Like I said I am wanting to hit the sub 20hz range with enough output to feel it. Given what the graphs for the 15" look like w/o room gain I am fairly sure duals will provide me: A) even bass response throughout the room & B) More than enough SPL

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areyou4real wrote: View Post
Re: REW. I have the miniDSP with the Audyssey mic and it works good, but there was a learning curve. If easier is a priority, then definitely go the miniDSP + UMIK-1 route. Be sure to get the balanced version of the miniDSP; it has the higher output V usually required to fully drive pro audio gear.
http://www.minidsp.com/products/mini...p-balanced-2x4
So I am now seeing that the MiniDSP doesnt have the balance connectors but that you need to make your own. I am a "bit" hesitant to do that so wondering if the REW iNuke + UMIK-1 MIC would work.

Also wondering if I can just get by with the non balanced model for the iNuke 3000. How would I be able to tell?
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post #36 of 70 Old 04-14-14, 10:03 AM
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Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build

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So I am now seeing that the MiniDSP doesnt have the balance connectors but that you need to make your own. I am a "bit" hesitant to do that so wondering if the REW iNuke + UMIK-1 MIC would work.

Also wondering if I can just get by with the non balanced model for the iNuke 3000. How would I be able to tell?
Do you mean REW, iNuke DSP, and UMIK-1? Yes, that would work, but you would need to manually EQ.

However, no need to make your own cables from scratch with the balanced miniDSP, if you are not comfortable. Just buy some RCA to XLR cables like these:
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Cable-XRM.../dp/B000068NZK

Chop off the RCA ends and strip the conductors. Insert them into the unbalanced output connector blocks, like so:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-dsp-help.html

Input side can be done the same way using, a RCA to RCA cable from your LFE output of your AVR.

Be sure you have a 12V, min 300 mA DC power supply to power it. If it has a plug already, cut it off, strip the conductors as per above, and insert. Make sure you note the correct polarity.

You will also need to buy a plug in. This one will work for what you are needing to do:
http://www.minidsp.com/products/plug...nced-21-detail
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post #37 of 70 Old 04-14-14, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build

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Do you mean REW, iNuke DSP, and UMIK-1? Yes, that would work, but you would need to manually EQ.
Yup, I have these instructions on how to do that as well. Then I wouldn't need the miniDSP at all (or at least to start with), saving me about 115 bucks (not including cables). I am guessing the MiniDSP is MUCH better than the DSP software in the iNuke but am not 100% sure. Likely would end up needing it later on, but could get the MIC to start with.

HOWEVER......

Quote:
areyou4real wrote: View Post
However, no need to make your own cables from scratch with the balanced miniDSP, if you are not comfortable. Just buy some RCA to XLR cables like these:
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Cable-XRM.../dp/B000068NZK

Chop off the RCA ends and strip the conductors. Insert them into the unbalanced output connector blocks, like so:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-dsp-help.html

Input side can be done the same way using, a RCA to RCA cable from your LFE output of your AVR.

Be sure you have a 12V, min 300 mA DC power supply to power it. If it has a plug already, cut it off, strip the conductors as per above, and insert. Make sure you note the correct polarity.

You will also need to buy a plug in. This one will work for what you are needing to do:
http://www.minidsp.com/products/plug...nced-21-detail
I can strip pre-existing cables just fine. I would need to initially add a 2 prong adapter for my LFE as I only have a .1 AVR not a .2.

This may make it a decentish option. I just wish they offered a model that was "truly" plug and play but IIRC its because lots of the XLR cables use different pin configurations they couldnt account for.
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post #38 of 70 Old 04-14-14, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build

I guess the question is how good is the iNuke DSP v the MiniDSP?

I save ~50 bucks between the 2 iNukes, but once you factor in the cost of the unit & cables its ~75 bucks or more than just the iNuke w DSP.

Either way I will probably just factor in the Mic. I have been wanting to mess with REW for a long time to help me position my mains.

Also if I use the miniDSP I wont be using it to crossover with my mains. I will let Audyssey do its thing there, so I just need to set the HPF, LPF and have it fix any weird issues between those frequencies.
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post #39 of 70 Old 04-14-14, 10:42 AM
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Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build

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I save ~50 bucks between the 2 iNukes

Why 2 iNukes?





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post #40 of 70 Old 04-14-14, 11:12 AM
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Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build

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I can strip pre-existing cables just fine. I would need to initially add a 2 prong adapter for my LFE as I only have a .1 AVR not a .2.
No to the adapter to split your single LFE output; it is not necessary. The single LFE output from the AVR is fed to a single miniDSP input. That single input is then duplicated internally using the miniDSP plug-in to two mono outputs. Those two mono outputs are then manipulated/EQ'd the using the plug-in. Those two miniDSP outputs then serve as the inputs for the amp's L & R channels to drive each sub individually.

FYI: Most AVRs do not have two unique LFE (.2) outputs. Higher-end AVRs sometimes do, but they likely already have Audyssey SubEQ functionality (independent EQ of two subs), so there is less to be gained by using a miniDSP in the first place.
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