Current 18" options for LLT-Big Sonotube - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #11 of 34 Old 02-26-08, 03:04 PM
Elite Shackster
 
Mike P.'s Avatar
Mike
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Chitek Lake, Sask.
Posts: 19,397
Re: Current 18" options for LLT-Big Sonotube

Different subs model differently due to thier specific parameters. What works for one may not be the best for another. Each sub has it's own requirements for the best combination of box size, tuning, and power input to get the most out of them.




We're all in this together!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Mike P. is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 34 Old 02-26-08, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
Shackster
Bill
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 64
Re: Current 18" options for LLT-Big Sonotube

Quote:
Mike P. wrote: View Post
Different subs model differently due to thier specific parameters. What works for one may not be the best for another. Each sub has it's own requirements for the best combination of box size, tuning, and power input to get the most out of them.
I agree. I might not be getting it, but my understanding is that the transfer magnitude graph in WinISD pretty much sums up a driver/box/port combo. It is very difficult to get any of these subs except the SS to behave in a smooth manner no matter the volume when trying to keep the freq at 15Hz or below. Is the "swish" (hill then valley) at the port freq a negative? Is there a better or more accurate representation of how well a driver is suited for a LLT enclosure?

It looks to me that for this price range certain 15's may outperform in a LLT environment.
Bill 3 is offline  
post #13 of 34 Old 02-26-08, 06:28 PM
Senior Shackster
 
Blueeyedfrog's Avatar
Sam
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Aust
Posts: 153
Re: Current 18" options for LLT-Big Sonotube

550 litres is just too big for the Mach5s and yes, the lower peak "swish" is not desirable. Rather, you want a gentle slope which will be boosted to flat, or better, a nice house curve, with the aid of room gain. Steve Callas helped me with the design of my next subs using the Mach5s:

Quote:
SteveCallas wrote: View Post
IXL 18 doesn't want a huge enclosure, and even at 400+ liters the tuning region starts to get peaky. I like the looks of ~365 liters with a ~15hz tune. You can't get away with an 8" port that way, but since it "only" has a claimed xmax of 22mm, air movement shouldn't be so bad as to cause problems. So it looks like three 4" diameter ports that are each 32" long works best. Two of those and an EP2500 will definitely do the trick. I wouldn't worry about sound quality for one second, as you'll have lots more headroom, lower distortion, much deeper extending FR, and faster overall transient response, all of which work to define accuracy. The most accurate subwoofer doesn't always sound the best subjectively though, based on what you are used to and what kind of music you like. However, over time, for a combination of both music and movies, accuracy tends to win out. A 12" simply can't keep up with two high excursion 18s in LLT form, not by a long shot.

HTPC -i5-2500k 3.3GHz|PowerDVD12 ultra,reclock|MPC-HC,ffshow,reclock|foobar,wasapi plugin|HD6970 ATI HDMI|DENON AVR-4311|B&W DM602 S3 x2 fronts|LCR600 S3 center|685 rears, heights & wides|DIY 2 x Mach 5 Audio IXL-18 sonosubs 365ltr 15hz|Behringer NU6000 sub amp|Optoma HD33 projector, DIY 100" blockout cloth screen
Blueeyedfrog is offline  
 
post #14 of 34 Old 02-27-08, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
Shackster
Bill
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 64
Re: Current 18" options for LLT-Big Sonotube

I played with the box volumes and have come up with the following. It seems that with price comes performance. And with performance/price comes volume of box for desired low Hz. I believe I understand why Steve likes the Fi over the Mach - SPL. I am still not sure what the Transfer Mag graph is telling me - efficiency???

So the question becomes how much enjoyment is there to be had by having higher output around the tuning point. I guess it is personal preference adn it can always be turned down. This is why it is all up to budget.....

*edit*-I will repost correct graphs.

Last edited by Bill 3; 02-28-08 at 06:30 AM. Reason: Remove graphs
Bill 3 is offline  
post #15 of 34 Old 02-27-08, 02:01 PM
Elite Shackster
 
thxgoon's Avatar
thxgoon
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,506
Re: Current 18" options for LLT-Big Sonotube

Quote:
Bill 3 wrote: View Post
So the question becomes how much enjoyment is there to be had by having higher output around the tuning point. I guess it is personal preference adn it can always be turned down. This is why it is all up to budget.....
Isn't it fun

Note that the difference in output between the woofers at 750 watts is only about a db or so. Also, the fi is cruising along at about 20mm excursion out of it's available 27mm, so it still has more to offer.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
thxgoon is offline  
post #16 of 34 Old 02-27-08, 03:44 PM
Elite Shackster
 
Ricci's Avatar
Josh
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 2,431
Re: Current 18" options for LLT-Big Sonotube

Don't forget about the Ascendant Audio Havoc 18!
Ricci is offline  
post #17 of 34 Old 02-27-08, 04:15 PM
Elite Shackster
 
Mike P.'s Avatar
Mike
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Chitek Lake, Sask.
Posts: 19,397
Re: Current 18" options for LLT-Big Sonotube

Quote:
Ricci wrote: View Post
Don't forget about the Ascendant Audio Havoc 18!
I haven't modelled that one yet but I heard it didn't model that well. Have you done any modelling with this one? Just wondering if what was said is true or not.




We're all in this together!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Mike P. is offline  
post #18 of 34 Old 02-27-08, 04:25 PM
Elite Shackster
 
Ricci's Avatar
Josh
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 2,431
Re: Current 18" options for LLT-Big Sonotube

It doesn't model as beautifully as the RLP18(which is about as good as we've got right now), but it isn't terrible. The main thing is that you can't really tune it below about 14 or 14.5hz and still get a decent response and it likes big sealed boxes. If you are tuning in the 14.5-17hz area it is decent. 425L tuned to 15hz with an 8" port looks nice to me.

Bill3,
My graphs that I get when modeling these drivers look substantially different than what you've shown.
Ricci is offline  
post #19 of 34 Old 02-27-08, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
Shackster
Bill
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 64
Re: Current 18" options for LLT-Big Sonotube

Quote:
Ricci wrote: View Post
Bill3,
My graphs that I get when modeling these drivers look substantially different than what you've shown.
Well, I have checked and double checked my inputs. I will post up what numbers I use for each driver. I was following the instructions from Collo's page on what to enter.

Qms, Re, Mms, Cms, BL, Sd, Hg, Hc, Pe (But I had to use Xmax in place of Hg,Hc,Pe)
Bill 3 is offline  
post #20 of 34 Old 02-27-08, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
Shackster
Bill
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 64
Re: Current 18" options for LLT-Big Sonotube

FiCarAudio Q18 Dual 2
Qms-5.73
Re- 1.4 Ohm
Mms-342g
Cms-0.13 mm/N
BL - 15.1 N/A
Sd - 1210 cm^2
Xmax - 27mm
Z-4 Ohm

Mach5Audio IXL-18.4
Qms-5.59
Re- 3.4 Ohm
Mms-434.3g
Cms-0.184 mm/N
BL - 20.51
Sd - 1029.2 cm^2
Xmax - 22mm
Z-4 Ohm

SoundSplinter RL-p18 Dual2
Qms-4.535
Re- 3.74 Ohm
Mms-376.7g
Cms-156.7 u
BL - 19.5 T*m
Sd - 0.1188 m^2
Xmax - 27.4mm
Z-4 Ohm
Bill 3 is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
current 18 , lltbig , options , sonotube

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now




PLEASE COMPLETE ALL REQUIRED FIELDS BELOW... THANKS!

REQUIRED FIELDS ON THIS PAGE
YOU MUST COMPLETE ALL OF THESE

Username
Password
Confirm Password
Email Address
Confirm Email Address
Random Question
Random Question #2




User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
PLEASE READ BELOW PRIOR TO ENTERING AN EMAIL ADDRESS!

ATTENTION!

YOU MUST ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT!

Activation requires you reply to an email we will send you after you register... if you do not reply to this email, you will not be able to view certain areas of the forum or certain images... nor will you be able download software.

AN INVALID EMAIL ADDRESS WILL CAUSE YOUR ACCOUNT TO BE DELETED!

See our banned email list here: Banned Email List

We DO NOT respond to spamcop, boxtrapper and spamblocker emails... please add @hometheatershack DOT com to your whitelist prior to registering or you will get nowhere on your registration.


Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML is not allowed!
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome