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EndersShadow 04-12-14 09:41 PM

Need help planning a DIY sub build
 

5 Attachment(s)
I have a 16 wide x 18 long room. Its open on the back to the kitchen. I have a eD A2-300. It just cant deliver as much due to the open nature of the space. I am looking at 2 options for sub(s) and 2 for amps. I wanted thoughts on them and I am open to suggestions.

I am trying to get the best room response I can for the buck and get some down low sub 20hz stuff going on. The goal is for this to be mostly HT based for LFE. Music is secondary. I am also looking for a more even room response (hence looking at duals), but also something that gives me some decent umph and hopefully down to 20hz. I am ballparking w/ the dining room that I am at or over 3k cubic foot.

I have capable fronts in my Polk LSi 15's. They have been modded to replace the stock 8" driver with Polks db851 driver. They are being driven with 550 wpc from a hot rodded Carver M1.0t. I have them crossed at 50hz right now IIRC.

I am also potentially debating the iNuke subs, I just am not sure if I want to go with them over the QSC's......

I am REACHING if I spend 1k on this total. I am hoping to be MUCHmore in the 800 dollar range for just driver(s) and amp.

Here are some options I am debating.

Option 1a: 2 12" Dayton Ultimax drivers. Each in a 4 cubic ft box. Driven by a QSC-7 so each will get 1k @ 4 ohm.

Option 1b: 1 TC Sounds LMS-R in a 6 cubic foot box. Each Voice coil driven by a channel from the QSC-7 giving it 1k @ 4 ohm.

Option 2a: 2 12" Dayton Ultimax drivers. Each in a 4 cubic ft. Driven by a QSC GX-5 so each will get 700w @ 4 ohm.

Option 2b: 1 TC Sounds LMS-R in a 6 cubic foot box. Each Voice coil driven by a channel from the QSC GX-5 giving it 700w @ 4 ohm.

I am totally open to other suggestions but prefer they meet the following metrics:

1. 12 or 15" driver Preferred. Willing to look at 18" woofers.
2. No bigger than 6 cubic foot box. I would prefer to build a Sonotube as its more WAF friendly as its tall but not nearly as deep as say a Martysub
3. Would LOVE IT if I could do duals to start with, or if nothing else if the amp could handle duals on its own.
4. IF I CAN GET EQ I WOULD BE HAPPY. Otherwise I am looking hard at a 2 x 4 minidsp w/ mic to use REW to EQ my setup.
5. I am on a slab with no crawlspace. I am on the first floor with a room above me and exterior walls on 2 sides. There is no way to hide the sub in the walls or floor.
6. Must be downfiring with ports at the bottom (or if sonotube at the top). Small child = poke poke on driver.

Here is what my setup looks like (these are stock pics from when we bought the house)

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...24_A01_102.jpg

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...824_701_18.jpg

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...824_901_18.jpg

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...24_501_109.jpg

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...24_301_109.jpg

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...24_401_109.jpg


Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.

areyou4real 04-12-14 10:48 PM

Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build
 

Quote:

EndersShadow wrote: (Post 696252)
I have a 16 wide x 18 long room. Its open on the back to the kitchen. I have a eD A2-300. It just cant deliver as much due to the open nature of the space. I am looking at 2 options for sub(s) and 2 for amps. I wanted thoughts on them and I am open to suggestions.

I am trying to get the best room response I can for the buck and get some down low sub 20hz stuff going on. The goal is for this to be mostly HT based for LFE. Music is secondary. I am also looking for a more even room response (hence looking at duals), but also something that gives me some decent umph and hopefully down to 20hz. I am ballparking w/ the dining room that I am at or over 3k cubic foot.

I am totally open to other suggestions but prefer they meet the following metrics:

1. 12 or 15" driver Preferred. Willing to look at 18" woofers.
2. No bigger than 6 cubic foot box. I would prefer to build a Sonotube as its more WAF friendly as its tall but not nearly as deep as say a Martysub
3. Would LOVE IT if I could do duals to start with, or if nothing else if the amp could handle duals on its own.
4. IF I CAN GET EQ I WOULD BE HAPPY. Otherwise I am looking hard at a 2 x 4 minidsp w/ mic to use REW to EQ my setup.
5. I am on a slab with no crawlspace. I am on the first floor with a room above me and exterior walls on 2 sides. There is no way to hide the sub in the walls or floor.
6. Must be downfiring with ports at the bottom (or if sonotube at the top). Small child = poke poke on driver.

Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.

You might want to search for some of the builds here using either the Infinity 1260 or 1262 12" driver(s). The 1260 is SVC (4-ohm), while the 1262 is DVC (4-ohm x 2). Which one would work best for you, would depend on how many you are using vs. what impedance your amp can safely drive. Both would work fairly well either sealed or ported, with the size restrictions you give. The best part, at ~$60 each, they are a bargain for what you get.
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Refer.../dp/B0028AVGEO
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Refer.../dp/B0028AYIXK

With your budget and room size, I would get 4 of them and build 2 enclosures with 2 drivers each. If you went ported and larger you could get by with roughly 400 W RMS to each enclosure (i.e. to 2 drivers) to hit Xmax. Sealed and smaller would require more power. A model would provide more insight, once you decided which route to go. Either way, you could use one stereo amp to save money. Build one and use one channel or build two and use both channels.

Sonosubs are nice a way to go, if you want to limit the footprint, but MDF can also be used. The nice thing about DIY is that you control the footprint. For example, I just built a self-powered dual opposed sub using (2) 1262 drivers. Like you, I didn't want to eat up a lot of floor space, so I built up on 16" deep x 24" wide footprint.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...bash-500w.html

As far as protecting the speakers, Parts Express sells nice mesh metal grills for about $10 each.
http://www.parts-express.com/steel-m...black--260-428

MiniDSP is nice, especially when you need to set up a HPF on a ported sub to control cone excursion below tune. Add a UMIK-1 with REW and you will really have a lot of control for not much money. However, neither is mandatory assuming you can set up a HPF some other way (Some amps have the ability). A receiver/preamp with Audyssey MultEQ XT and higher, can also do much of the same, save the HPF.

You may want to consider the iNuke DSP line (with fan mod if it's going to be in your listening area). The DSP will allow you to set up the HPF, and they are also 2-ohm stable. In that case, you could use the NU1000DSP (~$199, 380 W RMS per channel, 2-ohm) if you went ported and larger. Or step up to the NU3000DSP (~$279, 1040 W RMS per channel, 2-ohm) if you go sealed and smaller or just want some more headroom.


$250 (4) 1260 drivers
$200/$280 amp
$200 4 sheets 3/4" pro grade MDF (possibly only 3, if sealed)
$150 hardware/paint/wire/misc
-----
$800 - $880 total

Mike P. 04-13-14 07:58 AM

Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build
 

Certain iNuke amps have a DSP option, does QSC offer the same thing?




EndersShadow 04-13-14 09:16 AM

Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build
 

5 Attachment(s)
Quote:

areyou4real wrote: (Post 696264)
MiniDSP is nice, especially when you need to set up a HPF on a ported sub to control cone excursion below tune. Add a UMIK-1 with REW and you will really have a lot of control for not much money. However, neither is mandatory assuming you can set up a HPF some other way (Some amps have the ability). A receiver/preamp with Audyssey MultEQ XT and higher, can also do much of the same, save the HPF.

You may want to consider the iNuke DSP line (with fan mod if it's going to be in your listening area). The DSP will allow you to set up the HPF, and they are also 2-ohm stable. In that case, you could use the NU1000DSP (~$199, 380 W RMS per channel, 2-ohm) if you went ported and larger. Or step up to the NU3000DSP (~$279, 1040 W RMS per channel, 2-ohm) if you go sealed and smaller or just want some more headroom.

I will take a look at those subs, but given the size of your enclosure that simply wont pass muster here with WAF smile.gif. They sure do look quite nice.

The reason for the MiniDSP is that right now I have Audyssey 2EQ only, hence no real DSP on my sub. I wanted the ability to incorporate multiples if I wanted to use 4 later on and the DSP allows me to do that. Plus I can also use the REW setup to help me better place my existing fronts so they work better.

Thats why I am looking at the minidsp and then NOT the DSP iNuke models..

I am also "looking" at MartyCube's using the Dayton 18" driver. My issue with them is that compared to the LMS-R they are MUCH louder till about 25 hz and then they drop off quickly. I am wanting decent output at 20hz and the LMS-R looks to provide that, however the MartyCube's can both be built with a iNuke 3000 and driven to their max.

Martycube: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1516724/martysub-flatpacks


Quote:

Mike P. wrote: (Post 696332)
Certain iNuke amps have a DSP option, does QSC offer the same thing?

Nope, the QSC doesnt. Also though I am debating the minidsp on top which negates that need. I just dont know how the iNuke can provide as much rated wattage as it suggests, but I am also not an electronics guy....

Mike P. 04-13-14 09:51 AM

Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build
 

2 Attachment(s)
So you want 20 hz extension in a sonotube under 6 cu.ft. The best I can come up with would be a pair of CSS SDX12's each in 5 cu.ft. tuned to 20 hz. The SDX12 is comparable to a LMS-R12 only way cheaper, they are $519 a pair shipping included.

http://creativesound.ca/details.php?model=SDX12%20Promo

Modeling shows the the SPL of a single driver in green with 1000 watts, yellow is the combined SPL of 2 drivers with 2000 watts which would be an estimated 117 db at 20 hz plus any effects of room gain. A HPF is required at 22 hz and porting is a 6" flared port 34.5" long. Maximum port air speed is 23 m/s at 20 hz.

Attachment 48310

Here are the dimensions required for a 16" diameter sonotube with 4" legs and a base plate.

Attachment 48311




EndersShadow 04-13-14 10:05 AM

Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build
 

5 Attachment(s)
AWESOME MAN!

Thats almost exactly what I was looking to see.

Do you know anything about the MartyCube's which use 18" drivers instead of the 12's.

The approximate dimensions are 2' by 2',by 2' ~20hz tuning in 5 cuft box (1100 watts). It uses these drivers.

Also whats the thought on 12 v 15 v 18. I always hear the 12's and 15's are quicker to hit than the 18's.

I REALLY REALLY like how just straight flat that graph is with duals. I am thinking that may be exactly what I go with as it just looks really good and from a cost perspective its quite good.

Anyway to model it in a 18" Sonotube to see what height that might be? I am not wanting to make these taller than my mains which are 45.5

Any suggestions on if I should go with the iNuke or the QSC's?

EndersShadow 04-13-14 10:24 AM

Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build
 

5 Attachment(s)
I am also ok with multiple ports if that somehow allows us to make it a bit shorter. Like I said I am wanting ot keep it under 45 1/2 inches tall so its not taller than my mains. Otherwise not sure the WAF factor will work. But I also dont want it to be 2 feet in diameter either. Its a hard line to draw, so I am thinking the 18" Sonotube will work with multiple ports just like the SVS's....

Mike P. 04-13-14 10:33 AM

Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build
 

The 460HO is a 24" cube will have more output above 25 hz and less output in the 18 -25 hz range compared to the SDX12. The 460HO also will not fit in a sonotube due to the port length being too long for the sonotube height, unless you use 6" elbows which gets pricey really quick.

What size sonotube (diameter and height) can you get away with without exceeding the WHF (Wife Happy Factor)?




EndersShadow 04-13-14 11:00 AM

Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build
 

5 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Mike P. wrote: (Post 696371)
The 460HO is a 24" cube will have more output above 25 hz and less output in the 18 -25 hz range compared to the SDX12. The 460HO also will not fit in a sonotube due to the port length being too long for the sonotube height, unless you use 6" elbows which gets pricey really quick.

What size sonotube (diameter and height) can you get away with without exceeding the WHF (Wife Happy Factor)?

I think more than likely a 18" Sonotube is about as much as I can get away with, since I would still need to wrap it with fabric. Likely if I can keep it under the height of my mains I "should" be ok.

Would you suggest putting the 12's in a box? I am "OK" with boxes, but the Sonotube would be simpler to build and easier to wrap in fabric and have a "better" WAF factor. My current eD has a rhinoline/durex finish which is fine as it holds up when my 1 year old decides to slap it around. I would finish a box in a similar fashion for the same reason.

Any box needs to be downfiring and vented at the bottom as well (I was going to put the MartyCube facing down). Prefer something thats close to a square rather than something really skinny and tall (in box form)

The 460HO does have more output above 25 for sure, but I am not about PURE SPL numbers. I want a decent response from 2 locations in my room to even it out since I have such a large area to cover. My wife doesnt like it when I crank it, so the big boom's will be when its just me. I am just wanting a good overall response and the ability to fill the room right which given my space I know means duals in each corner, and possibly even later on another one as a endtable in a third location. I also dont know if you could kick up the db's under 25hz with the 260HO's via DSP (such as a miniDSP) to get to where the 12's end up.

Mike P. 04-13-14 12:46 PM

Re: Need help planning a DIY sub build
 

1 Attachment(s)
Your options would be SDX12's in 16" diameter sonotubes or SI HT 15D4's in 24" cubes as they won't work in a sonotube.

Attachment 48316





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