REW with USB 7.1 external sound card - not working - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 22 Old 01-15-17, 08:00 AM
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Re: REW with USB 7.1 external sound card - not working

Tim,

I suspect that you might have ASIO4ALL configured improperly.

Posting a picture of ASIO4ALLs panel is useful ( so others can make an assessment in a "request-for-help" post ).

Also, post a picture of REW preferences panel showing what you've selected ( or not ).

Here's one of mine ( showing 2 different soundcards bundled together by ASIO4ALL ) .


- Those blue triangles must be lit for the individual "Ins & Outs" to be accessible to the software ( REW in this case ).

REW will throw a caution screen when it doesn't "see" any data at it's input lines.


Last edited by EarlK; 01-15-17 at 08:19 AM.
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post #12 of 22 Old 01-15-17, 09:12 AM
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Re: REW with USB 7.1 external sound card - not working

Tim,

Additionally, ASIO4ALL can be quite finicky when used with REW.

I find that changes made within the ASIO4ALL control panel rarely take/stick ( or hold in place ) the first time, as one would assume they would.

I find it's best to quit REW > reopen REW > reopen the REWs Preference window > reopen ASIO4ALL's control panel and inspect the status of the "Ins & Outs" . More than once I have found those IO's to be not lit ( when I assumed they should have been ).

Re-Selecting & going through the preceding steps will usually keep them lit up and accessible to REW ( as viable "Ins & Outs" ).

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post #13 of 22 Old 01-16-17, 01:49 AM
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Re: REW with USB 7.1 external sound card - not working

Thanx Earl - much appreciated - luckily the ASIO4ALL control panel has always correctly selected the USB audio device, and deselected the other audio devices on my pc that I have disabled in Win Sound. And the panel correctly shows the USB device as having 44 to 96kHz range, 24 bit, and 2 channels for both inputs and outputs.

Yes I've gotten used to rechecking all settings each time I open any app with such a USB soundcard. Windows likes to install a Tt eSPORTS SHOCK 3D 7.1 USB device driver by default for this particular USB device, but generally holds on to the generic Win USB driver after it is installed. And when making any preference change within REW its almost mandatory to stop/start the software, and sometimes to physically remove/insert the USB device, to add some confidence that the settings have stuck.

I just tried the ASIO driver with 44 and 48kHz sample rate settings, and the calibration process proceeds through to the 'make a measurement' window and the status shows 'ready to measure ...', and this time the In and Ref In level meters show they have been driven down to a low level and dither about waiting, so the process perhaps is not able to configure a return signal path.

As previously described, when doing that with 96kHz selected, the In and Ref In levels meters weren't responding.

The above is only happening when the '1' Output is selected (which I assume is the left channel that I have electrically connected to the output socket), whereas I get a message of no soundcard connected with I select '2' as the output.

I'll play with a few of the ASIO control panel setting options soon to see if I can detect any change.

Snip of preference screen, and debug text file from 'Levels' section, uploaded below.
Attached Thumbnails
REW with USB 7.1 external sound card - not working-rew-setup-.jpg  

Attached Files soundcard_debug v1.txt (9.6 KB) 
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post #14 of 22 Old 01-16-17, 03:08 AM
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Re: REW with USB 7.1 external sound card - not working

Quote:
<<<<SNIP>>>>I just tried the ASIO driver with 44 and 48kHz sample rate settings, and the calibration process proceeds through to the 'make a measurement' window and the status shows 'ready to measure ...', and this time the In and Ref In level meters show they have been driven down to a low level and dither about waiting, so the process perhaps is not able to configure a return signal path.
<<<<SNIP>>>>
REW doesn't have the capability to make complete soft-patch loops, all from within itself.

IOW, one can't direct an REW output signal back into an REW input without actually going through a physical ( soundcard ) output and then back into a physical ( soundcard ) input ( all via a cable ) .

Perhaps the problem here is your cabling ( or lack of ??) and routing expectations for REW ( that just don't exist ) .
- You have yet to mention your physical cabling setup .



EDIT: gone till Wed.

Last edited by EarlK; 01-16-17 at 05:38 AM.
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post #15 of 22 Old 01-17-17, 01:21 AM
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Re: REW with USB 7.1 external sound card - not working

In post #7 I started by identifying correct REW operation with direct loopback cable (stereo 3.5mm male to male). The Java options are pretty straightforward, but happy to push this wheelbarrow for ASIO to see how far it can go

I did a similar mod to a bare-bones stereo USB soundcard 2-3 years ago, as a guide for others who wanted to play in that field, and got some feedback from a Glasgow Uni prac supervisor preparing low cost oscilloscope interfaces for students.

http://dalmura.com.au/projects/Soundcard%20mods.pdf
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post #16 of 22 Old 01-18-17, 12:50 PM
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Re: REW with USB 7.1 external sound card - not working

Quote:
trobbins wrote: View Post
In post #7 I started by identifying correct REW operation with direct loopback cable (stereo 3.5mm male to male). The Java options are pretty straightforward, but happy to push this wheelbarrow for ASIO to see how far it can go

I did a similar mod to a bare-bones stereo USB soundcard 2-3 years ago, as a guide for others who wanted to play in that field, and got some feedback from a Glasgow Uni prac supervisor preparing low cost oscilloscope interfaces for students.

http://dalmura.com.au/projects/Soundcard%20mods.pdf
Sorry, that bit about having used a cable ( with your successful JAVA setup ) obviously didn't stick .

You might consider the 35mm TRRS input jack ( of this card ) as a possible gremlin here ( that needs to be explored & eliminated ).
- The extra "R" (ring) on your soundcard is meant for the microphone found in a gamers Headset.

If you are simply using a standard 35mm, TRS>TRS cable ( instead of a 35mm TRRS > ??? breakout cable ) you might be triggering a VCA controlled, auto-sensing circuit that then limits the sample rate of your soundcard .

You need to be using something like this (at least on the input side) to explore this possibility;




Last edited by EarlK; 01-18-17 at 01:05 PM.
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post #17 of 22 Old 01-20-17, 09:42 AM
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Re: REW with USB 7.1 external sound card - not working

Tim,

It really appears to me that you'll have no success at using ASIO4ALL with REW ( when expecting a stable 96K sampling rate from a "wrapped" WDM driver ).

I just don't think ASIO4ALL supports 96K properly.

I hooked up my Focusrite 2i2 ( which has it's own 96K ASIO driver > it also works properly with REW in ASIO mode ) and I could not get ASIO4ALL to provide a reliable 96K data stream ( that didn't sputter & stop & restart during the measurement sweep > leaving gaps in the captured data ).

The ASIO4ALL website ( forum ) is pretty opaque regarding these sort of limitations/boundaries ( so this is one of those situations where one simply has to try it out to see if it works ).

I'm now quite confident you'll need to buy a soundcard ( with an ASIO driver sporting 96K capabilty > & then use it with a custom-built voltage divider jig for protection ) to make your amplifier-level distortion measurements.



BTW; Your mention of 96K success with TrueRTA is somewhat of a misdirection ( for anyone else reading along since TrueRTA doesn't support ASIO drivers ) because it was mentioned within the context of an ASIO discussion .

Last edited by EarlK; 01-20-17 at 01:56 PM.
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post #18 of 22 Old 01-20-17, 04:44 PM
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Re: REW with USB 7.1 external sound card - not working

Thanks for the extra assistance, and effort, Earl. I was going to play around with tip and ring connection paths this weekend - I will try and see what happens.

The comments about TrueRTA were just to indicate that the USB device could operate at 96kHz sampling with an app that supported 96kHz with the base MS driver, given the REW Java driver only supports up to 48kHz sampling rate.

My main aim was to explore what practical performance and limits occur with the cheapest USB soundcard I've come across, so I'm pleased to get this far in awareness. Sort of an R&D effort. I have had a working measurement acquisition path for a while, including the EMU-0404 192kHz sampling card with ASIO drivers for when the situation requires it, so it's not that I need this particular cheapy USB soundcard to work.

Time can help sometimes - such as from REW or ASIO4ALL updates.

Last edited by trobbins; 01-20-17 at 04:50 PM.
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post #19 of 22 Old 01-21-17, 08:10 AM
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Re: REW with USB 7.1 external sound card - not working

Hi Tim,

I do get something out of these threads from time to time ( & it's not predictable where this new knowledge will come from ).
- Now I know that a 96K WDM driver should work with ASIO4ALL.

Anyways, you might of noticed my new thread ( about ASIO4ALL & the 96K sampling rate ).
- If so, you'll see that I was able to finally get my hardware/driver to sample at 96K in the ASIO4ALL wrapper.
- It took a while, with a bit of "coaching" given to REW.
- It was like I had to build up its' confidence first ( with the driver/device combo ) by walking it through successful>successive lower rates ( 48K>88.2K>96K ) before it would sample at 96K in a repeatable way ( all quite bizarre really ).


Last edited by EarlK; 01-21-17 at 08:19 AM.
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post #20 of 22 Old 01-21-17, 08:26 PM
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Re: REW with USB 7.1 external sound card - not working

I just went through a matrix of checks myself.

My USB is custom - only the right output is electrically connected to the output socket (tip). So I am using a loopback connection that connects right output to left + right input.

I have set ASIO4All to 44kHz, and ASIO control recognises the device as 2 channel O/P and 2 ch I/P. I can get to 'Make a measurement' in calibrate process when ASIO is set for O/P to 1, O/P reference to 1, and I/P to 1 or 2, and loopback to 2 or 1 respectively. The calibrate process (make a measurement screen) shows it is detecting I/P and I/P ref signals (they seem to be at noise floor levels), however there is no O/P level detection. The I/P levels sometimes spike up, which I guess is due to a gain command change.

I did a variety of ASIO setting changes (always stopping REW and re-inserting USB to reset everything) but no improvement. I checked the MS Sound app settings, and modified them. I used an unadulterated USB card of same make/type, and same response. I used a USB card with just 44/48kHz stereo performance that ASIo panel correctly shows as 2ch O/P, and 1 ch I/P, and also got the same outcome.

It is as if the REW calibrate process was not able to command an O/P to the device using ASIO4all, as the indication is the I/Ps are being appropriately sensed.

Anyway, that's enough fun for now. Thanks Earl for the hand holding - yes forums are great for extending out awareness and appreciation. Ciao, Tim
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