Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains - Page 3 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #21 of 70 Old 10-11-09, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

You and I are thinking alike

I liked your enclosure inside an enclosure idea.

That speaker is you show is similar to what I'm thinking, only upright with down-firing sub with upward facing sub-port. The upper 'mini'-cylinder would house the MTM or TM on a flat baffle, as in your example.

Now, I'm looking at whether I should use the tritrix, or a different proven design. I am finding that the long-ish baffle of the tritrix MTM design uses about twice the frontal area for the required volume (~.7ft^3 or 20L) because the resultant cylinder after accounting for drivers, port, baffle, is likely around 1.0ft^3 (30L), or double the optimal volume for the ported design.

Any ideas on another low-cost, yet competent proven design/kit? Perhaps using a dual 4" driver MTM, or 5.25" or 6.5" TM configuration? It only has to be flat to 80hz, but should handle 100wrms @8ohms, or even greater @4ohms input.
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post #22 of 70 Old 10-11-09, 01:47 AM
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

There are a ton of great designs out there. There aren't a ton that fit your criteria but there are quite a few.

The Zaph ZA5.2 would work.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=8648

Roman's Microbe would work if you ported it, sealed it barely hits 80hz. I'm using microbes that were redesigned to use a vifa XT25 tweeter and they sound incredible.
http://www.rjbaudio.com/Microbe%20SE/microbe%20SE.html

The Modula MT is a great design, but substantially more expensive than some of the others in your group.
http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=13154

The RS150MTM or Lineup MTM would work.
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=28655

And there is The Girl From Ipanema
http://undefinition.googlepages.com/...irlfromipanema

These are all going to have superior highs and mids compared to the Tritrix kit, and are smaller. However as for sheer output volume and price, none of them are going to touch the Tritrix in that respect, 2x 5.5 woofers are just going to be able to push more air than 1 5 or 6 inch woofer, and all these designs are over $120. But they're smaller and sound better.

Edit* GR Research AV1C would also be a candidate. I don't know about their tweeters but the woofer used in this unit is supposed to be a great driver.
http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp...ROD&ProdID=135

Last edited by evilskillit; 10-11-09 at 02:06 AM.
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post #23 of 70 Old 10-11-09, 02:16 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

You're helping me a whole lot-I found the zaph, but not the others- the power handling may not be there on some of these, but should be fine for ht use crossed at 80hz, then, if I power it up for 2ch, I can move it from 80hz up to 100-150hz as the subs will be in stereo emanating from each speaker. If I can get into one of these for under $200 and have a marked sound improvement, I'll be golden. I'll look these over...
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post #24 of 70 Old 10-12-09, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

I've been modeling mids in sealed enclosures along with the ED 12" driver, and the dayton 5.25" haven't handled the rated 30wrms as stated-more like 35wrms input as a pair. Doesn't winisd use rms for input power calculations?

A pair of peerless 5.25's with 5mm xmax modeled with 110w input vs the dayton's 2.5mm modeled with 30w input-and the spl output of the peerless' was much more in-line with the spl output of the ED 12" with 175wrms input. Obviously this is a big difference, and consequently has me worried about using the dayton's...

Since my preamp will handle the 12" to 5.25 xover duties, I'm thinking about these bargain peerless' mids again, possibly with the same dayton tweeter and maybe trying to learn the xover modeling software.
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post #25 of 70 Old 10-12-09, 03:02 PM
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

That is possible, and if you pull it off, more power to you

Another thing you could look into is putting the Tritrix in a small box that is ported with a port tuning around 80hz to take advantage of the lowpass filter. Try playing with the porting of the dayton drivers, move it around 50-80hz and see how it affects the power handling. Put on a LPF and see what that does for you.

The excursion down to 80hz should be substantially reduced, increasing power handling, and excursion below 80hz wouldn't be much of an issue due to the sub/mid crossover.

Just dinking around with Winisd I put them in a 9 litre box tuned to 76hz and you can apply 30 watts without exceeding excursion till below 70hz, and peak output is over 105db.

You could use a 3" round 8" long port. Tho the first port resonance shows up at 850hz, don't know if that would be a problem or not... Anyways you see where I'm going with this.

Something to consider. If you really want to get into designing your own speakers you should. It seems awesome, I'd like to try it some day. However if you're trying to build something better than the Tritrix for not much more, by the time you buy a microphone, get some books, other measurement hardware, buy drivers, build prototype baffles, build prototype crossovers, possibly scrap those, buy more and do it again you'll have spent several hundred dollars plus your time. At that point you could have just built a pair of Natalie Ps, or Mini-Statements, or Dayton RS TMWW or Kahnspires. All large loud, powerful full range floor standing speakers that can be built for less than $600 on average, which is probably what you'd end up with sunk into designing your first set of 2 way speakers.
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post #26 of 70 Old 10-12-09, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

I'm going to try double checking the modeling of the tritrix sealed for power handling as I didn't get the value you did-it surpassed the 2.5mm xmax around 80-110hz, at a much lower input than advertised. When I modeled ported, performance was really only affected below 80hz and even then power handling wasn't as advertised, so I'll have to check again.

Based on what I've got so far, my plan would likely be to use a peerless mid/dayton tweeter small sealed setup, and if it failed, go to the tritrix kit. My design will use a simple flat baffle that I can easily change if needed, volume sealed is very forgiving for 5.25 drivers, so I'd be out $120 or so if I have to go to the tritrix configuration. A better plan than $600+, eh?

Or maybe I should pick up the tritrix kit now- then add the 4 peerless drivers for $50 (to my door) for a total of $170 plus any xover mods I add. I'd be able to do A-B comparisons as well
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post #27 of 70 Old 10-12-09, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

A setback to option B is the tritrix now uses dual 4ohm mids, whereas it previously used dual 8 ohm mids in the triune format. My amps can handle the triune format's net 4 ohms no problem, however, the peerless mids are dual 8 ohm drivers, so I might ask if they can package the tritrix as the old triune for me, I hope
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post #28 of 70 Old 10-12-09, 07:33 PM
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

Let me know how it worked out. I had a set of 3way galaxy speakers that had a tweet, a mid and a 12" woofer. The woofer surround rotted out. Well I figure any 12 should work right? And any new 12 should sound better than a 20 year old woofer did so I bought some random 12" goldwood woofer.

The first one was the wrong impedence, it sounded horrible. Then I got a 4 ohm, at least it was loud enough now, but it still sounded like poopoo. I ended up shoving the speakers into the attic and trying to forget about them. Then one day I was cleaning the attic and saw them. Took out the perfeclty good but bad sounding 12s, modeled them in Winisd and forced them to be the subs in my 2 channel stereo set up. They sound great now. But in those galaxys, they were awful. All shrill, no bass at all
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post #29 of 70 Old 10-12-09, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

I'm following you-I've modeled both sets of 5.25's in identical sealed volume, with the lower freq response curve almost identical given the same hpf from my preamp, only output being different. Both speakers will be well within their higher freq limit. The baffles on the tritrix is almost identical to the baffle from an nht speaker the peerless 5.25's were used, so the only real difference between the two should be the crossover, we'll see

The fine print on the PE tritrix kit page allows comparable part substitutions, and 4 and 8 ohm drivers are priced the same!
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post #30 of 70 Old 10-12-09, 10:51 PM
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

Awesome, that works out well for you, good luck with your project and let us all know how it works out for you. I can't wait to see the results
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