Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #1 of 70 Old 10-09-09, 02:29 AM Thread Starter
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Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

So, this is my thread over in diy speakers. I need help with the sub portion as I know very little about sealed subs. The ED driver is recommended for 1.0-1.2 sealed or 1.5-1.8 ported, so I'm thinking I could use a sealed 0.9 ft^3 net; plus I don't have/want another hpf to set separately from the hpf on my LLT Mal-X. The concerns on my last post 10/09 are in addition to the fact that the driver depth is a deep 5.75", so with .75" mdf, the driver would be 5" deep and the cab width would have 6" depth, is this problematic for sealed? I intend to have another .75" mdf trim along the bottom edge side of the tower, but it was primarily prevent side-tipping of the tower, however I could extend the trim to the same height as the opposite side sub baffle (~14"), if it would help.

The depth of the sub and possible need to eq it to balance the tritrix above it are my primary concerns. I'd really like to integrate these...
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post #2 of 70 Old 10-09-09, 10:23 AM
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

It sounds to me like your trying to build something like these speakers here. Its obviously something that works so there should be no concern that way.

It looks as though an external crossover might be the way forward, and you could use separate speaker terminals on the cabinet purely for the sub. I dont think there will be any problems with what your envisioning going of the speaker in my link, and I think using them for a little inspiration may prove worthwhile. If your serious about the bass driver being for sub bass though, fit the driver on the side and find a good 10" one like the XTZ, then simply produce only sub bass with this. Sub bass is omnidirectional, so the side mounting then is no longer an issue.

IMO, anything less than a 10" driver is simply a mid-bass driver and not a true sub.
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post #3 of 70 Old 10-09-09, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

Thanks for the encouragement- I was planning on side-mounting as the front is only 7" wide while the sides are 14.25" deep. My biggest concern is needing to eq the 12" to boost the low end as it looks pretty anemic without something in the way of 5db boost @30hz, with low Q (~1) so it affects a wider range down low. I guess an eq for these mains would be highly desirable/needed. I'm also not sure about that shallow depth...Any others' help appreciated.
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post #4 of 70 Old 10-09-09, 06:00 PM
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

Quote:
The ED driver is recommended for 1.0-1.2 sealed or 1.5-1.8 ported, so I'm thinking I could use a sealed 0.9 ft^3 net;
Which ED sub and what was the Q when you modeled it in .9 cu. ft.?




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post #5 of 70 Old 10-09-09, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

Hi Mike, uh, I don't remember, I think .707. It is the ED E3.12 driver, and the ED specs recommend a 1.0-1.2 ft^3 sealed or 1.5-1.8 ported, so I figured sealed make more sense as the volume is tight, with the enclosure being narrow.
My 'mains' (in-ceiling 6.5"s) do ok for ht, but music kinda sucks as I have to use surround to even obtain respectable volumes (and I don't really like the sound very often). I got the idea to build my own from the tritrix, and most diy'ers highly recommend going with a proven design, though I would really like to use the modeling software for speakers and make my own. I have to admit what they say makes sense, however, I figured the lower cost designs would be weak on overall spl, especially lows, so I'm looking at integrating a bass driver that side-fires below the mains. I had the plans drawn up for two 'ingenious' sonosubs (unique baseplate mounting), but since I don't know how to integrate subs together, I figure my sound would benefit most from improved mains, so I'm considering this. I could even pick up a couple inexpensive 10"s and use them instead. I figured since the tritrix was short, it would be a two-bird, one-stone kind of deal. Or should I just slightly extend the height leaving an empty speaker base and mount my xovers there? I just don't to build these and wish I'd gone bigger/more powerful. What do you think?
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post #6 of 70 Old 10-09-09, 11:30 PM
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

E.D. recommendations for box size is for car audio. Box size for your application will depend on what yo are trying to accomplish. How low do you want them to go and how high will they be crossed over to the mains?

Be aware that building crossovers is part science and part art. It usually takes tweaking to get a design to sound right. There are crossover design programs available that will state what components and values you will need to get you in the ball park. Doing it right means measuring the response and making any nessecary changes to make it smooth. You have to be willing to put in the time and effort.




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post #7 of 70 Old 10-09-09, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

Thanks for the very important point- I'm sure the car guys emphasize spl over freq response. I figured I'd use a standard 80hz crossover since my preamp can do either digital or analog 80hz subout. I imagine I'd want to be able to play with authority to 30hz, since I'll definitely be sending sub 60-70hz material to my Mal-x during ht use. What I'd like to do is be able to play this pair in stereo for music only, perhaps without firing up the Mal-X and associated amp, that is, if this pair can really shine, otherwise that point is moot.

What do you think about all of this? The other concern I have is whether the gain adjustment on the amp will suffice for blending the high/mid and sub/woofer. Do you think I should just scrap this idea and build my sonosubs for now? After all, I don't have a huge house to just be placing boxes and tubes everywhere!

I have a couple amps that I could use which pretty much determine which one I would use with either ported or sealed: an svs 500w mono with built-in hpf @ 12,16,20, or 24hz that I could series wire the pair for [email protected], OR a samson 285w [email protected] each, no hpf (actually planned to use this for the mains somehow). So, I have options. Obviously, I want to optimize the bass output if using these ED drivers and have a set of real mains that look good and sound even better.
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post #8 of 70 Old 10-10-09, 01:57 AM
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

The SVS amp won't be an option for a pair of these subs. The coils are D2, you can wire them together for 2 ohms or 8 ohms, but not 4 ohms.

This is with 285 watts, no HPF is required since Xmax isn't reached until 5 hz. It wouldn't take much to build a pair of tubes and see how they sound with the speakers you have now, maybe it's enough.

Combo!  Sealed Sub below Mains-ironglen.jpg




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post #9 of 70 Old 10-10-09, 02:29 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

My mistake. svs amp is out (now I remember why I originally picked up the samson 550: sonosubs build)

Which speaker are you referring to Mike? The overhead in-ceiling L-R are the ones I really want to 'replace', particularly for 2 channel audio, but I'm wanting to make sure they can handle the full range, thus the attempt to incorporate the ED 12"ers into the design.

I've been playing with winisd, but the sealed roll-off is so much more dramatic than the ported models I've been playing with, so I'm kind of in left field. Is eq'ing always needed to flatten the response or do most people's rooms provide the gain?

The tritrix in a smaller sealed/ported configuration should output ~104db, so should my complimentary woofer output similar spl? The ED may output too much for the tritrix uppers, I'm afraid. Do you think I should look at smaller, less powerful 6.5" to 10" drivers for this task?
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post #10 of 70 Old 10-10-09, 02:42 AM
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Re: Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

You already have the ED subs, there's nothing saying you have to overpower the tritrix uppers, turn down the ED's to balance it out.




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