The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do! - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #11 of 39 Old 01-08-14, 08:10 AM
HTS Moderator
Reviewer
 
theJman's Avatar
Jim
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 3,239
My System
Re: The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!

Quote:
kramskoi wrote: View Post
In my system, the bass arrives and departs like a darting running back through a porous secondary on Superbowl Sunday.
Visions of Barry Sanders dance in my head. Well, minus the Superbowl part (a game he sadly never experienced).

It's somewhat ironic that I had commented about Bag End needing to make a dual opposed, so they had quality and quantity. I wonder if I should send my contact their the link to this thread...

-Jim

If you take yourself too seriously, expect me to do the exact opposite
theJman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 39 Old 01-08-14, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
Senior Shackster
 
kramskoi's Avatar
martin
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 102
Re: The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!

Quote:
theJman wrote: View Post
Visions of Barry Sanders dance in my head. Well, minus the Superbowl part (a game he sadly never experienced).

It's somewhat ironic that I had commented about Bag End needing to make a dual opposed, so they had quality and quantity. I wonder if I should send my contact their the link to this thread...
Maybe my friend, maybe. You know, I just did "Jurassic Lunch" with the RCF-21 and I can't bring myself to keep the volume up until the end. Violent shuddering of the room...Island1000, or whoever he is really was quite correct about the sub doing 10Hz with equalization. Of course it must be a room on the smaller side, but getting down to 8Hz is rather ironic, as we have been talking of Bag End and its products of late. Man, if the RCF only had 20mm Xmax instead of 13.2 mm! The VLF in the room reminds me of the old 3x15" TcSounds system I built about 7 years ago.

Bag End could definitely do a dual-opposed but it must be the right driver to stay somewhat small. The only one I can think of is the 18 Sounds 21LW400, which measured a really low .16 qts during testing for Data-Bass. Low qts, High BL, and you can just keep the box a reasonable size commercially.

MBoutte
south Louisiana
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Klipsch RB-35
Klipsch RB-35
Acoustech HT-65
Cerwin-Vega CV-2800

B&C 21SW152-4 [21" critical Q]
kramskoi is offline  
post #13 of 39 Old 01-10-14, 12:08 AM
Shackster
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: spokane, wa
Posts: 76
Re: The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!

What do you crossover at? 60?
Why not higher? I think I am liking 80 or 90.
Do your mains have as much power as your sub amp at 60 to 70?
cellarnoise is offline  
 
post #14 of 39 Old 01-10-14, 01:45 PM
Elite Shackster
 
Owen Bartley's Avatar
OJ
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,073
My System
Re: The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!

I'd love to hear a sub like this, just to be able to compare to more traditional builds. There are so many flavours of sub enclosure and alignment, and I'm sure some are better or worse suited to the listening tastes of the individual.

On a side note... Martin... where are the pictures?

- OJ -

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Owen Bartley is offline  
post #15 of 39 Old 01-10-14, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
Senior Shackster
 
kramskoi's Avatar
martin
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 102
Re: The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!

Quote:
cellarnoise wrote: View Post
What do you crossover at? 60?
Why not higher? I think I am liking 80 or 90.
Do your mains have as much power as your sub amp at 60 to 70?
I crossover at 60Hz because I prefer to keep the Fb out of the operating range of the subwoofer. I also do it because it sounds better with music, which represents the bulk of my listening habits. I also do it because I have Klipsch RB-35's as mains, with 8" drivers and 6" horns, which have a sensitivity rating of 96dB. 80 and 90Hz are the typical, traditional crossover points for home theater but I prefer to leave it at 60. Once I get a MINIDSP, I will experiment with both Butterworth and Linkwitz-Riley crossovers to find a better match between the sub and the mains. Incidentally, I have the mains set to +3dB and the sub is set to 0.

MBoutte
south Louisiana
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Klipsch RB-35
Klipsch RB-35
Acoustech HT-65
Cerwin-Vega CV-2800

B&C 21SW152-4 [21" critical Q]
kramskoi is offline  
post #16 of 39 Old 01-10-14, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
Senior Shackster
 
kramskoi's Avatar
martin
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 102
Re: The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!

Quote:
Owen Bartley wrote: View Post
I'd love to hear a sub like this, just to be able to compare to more traditional builds. There are so many flavours of sub enclosure and alignment, and I'm sure some are better or worse suited to the listening tastes of the individual.

On a side note... Martin... where are the pictures?
Some photos. The sub is "quiet", you won't realize it is there until its called for.
Attached Thumbnails
The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!-rcfmag.jpg  

The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!-rcfpic2.jpg  

The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!-rcfpic3.jpg  

The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!-rcfpic4.jpg  

The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!-rcfpic5.jpg  


MBoutte
south Louisiana
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Klipsch RB-35
Klipsch RB-35
Acoustech HT-65
Cerwin-Vega CV-2800

B&C 21SW152-4 [21" critical Q]
kramskoi is offline  
post #17 of 39 Old 01-10-14, 11:25 PM
Shackster
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: spokane, wa
Posts: 76
Re: The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!

Looking good. Looks like a pro-audio driver.

I plan on bringing home my bands cheap pa speakers to compare low end and play around. I think we have cheap 15' bearinger's p.a. boxes. We have used them for front sides for three years or so. I think the woof is ported. They do o.k. for our singer and random live mic. Setup. With the drums just having a kick mike and one overhead in larger rooms.
They do pretty good for outdoor live d.j. dance tunes.

Pro audio stuff sounds tight to 50 and maybe 40 if lucky. I would like to hear it used to go lower without being pushed into distortion. Sounds like you are in that zone. My 300 watts of bass amp can't push my low b string more than 3 meters. I love sitting on my dual ported 1990's pro-driver 12's box. Probably like 3mm of x-max. They still sound punchy after 23 years of thumping.

I guess I am used to the bass being directional to some degree as standing a meter in front of 40 hz+ is normal. You listen for your own sounds first and then how it blends in with the drums and then the leads.

In the HT I normally don't hear any vocals until 120+ in the sub channel...

Music tends to sound better with a 90, 100 or even 120 crossover depending on the material. Movies seem to be best at 80 or 90. My avr may be running out of steam driving 7 speakers...

Just need more power ? Tgif?
cellarnoise is offline  
post #18 of 39 Old 01-10-14, 11:34 PM
HTS Senior Moderator
 
chrapladm's Avatar
Papi
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Adelaide, SA
Posts: 5,869
Re: The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!

Quote:
kramskoi wrote: View Post
Some photos. The sub is "quiet", you won't realize it is there until its called for.
So when are you going to try the 21" BC IPAL or 21" RCF 551?

"Music is the space between the notes"
[T]o talk well and eloquently is a very great art, but that an equally great one is to know the right moment to stop.
chrapladm is offline  
post #19 of 39 Old 01-11-14, 02:45 AM Thread Starter
Senior Shackster
 
kramskoi's Avatar
martin
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 102
Re: The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!

Quote:
cellarnoise wrote: View Post
Looking good. Looks like a pro-audio driver.

I plan on bringing home my bands cheap pa speakers to compare low end and play around. I think we have cheap 15' bearinger's p.a. boxes. We have used them for front sides for three years or so. I think the woof is ported. They do o.k. for our singer and random live mic. Setup. With the drums just having a kick mike and one overhead in larger rooms.
They do pretty good for outdoor live d.j. dance tunes.

Pro audio stuff sounds tight to 50 and maybe 40 if lucky. I would like to hear it used to go lower without being pushed into distortion. Sounds like you are in that zone. My 300 watts of bass amp can't push my low b string more than 3 meters. I love sitting on my dual ported 1990's pro-driver 12's box. Probably like 3mm of x-max. They still sound punchy after 23 years of thumping.

I guess I am used to the bass being directional to some degree as standing a meter in front of 40 hz+ is normal. You listen for your own sounds first and then how it blends in with the drums and then the leads.

In the HT I normally don't hear any vocals until 120+ in the sub channel...

Music tends to sound better with a 90, 100 or even 120 crossover depending on the material. Movies seem to be best at 80 or 90. My avr may be running out of steam driving 7 speakers...

Just need more power ? Tgif?
All I can say about distortion is that the B&C 21SW152 performs better on a THD sweep than the LMS 5400 at 115 dB below 20Hz. No joke my friend...tested and the results are here:

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=72&mset=78

Imagine that, a pro sound 21" driver pushing a home theater sub specifically designed for uber-low frequency production. It does not go all the way to the end against the LMS but at 115dB, I'm taking the 21SW. My sub, you might not like, because it sounds like a nice pair of headphones...no bass peaking. I put on a track and listen through my headphones...the sound signature is almost the same with the sub. Problem is, the headphones won't shake the room with "Jurassic Lunch" like the RCF 21.

A 120Hz crossover is rather high and not recommended amongst most home theater specialists. Issues with localization of the sub arise and most wide-swinging HT subs will have too much inductance (Le) in that area anyway. I'm quite the opposite, I think the crossover should be set according to what your mains can deliver for music. The vented RB-35's will play down to 45Hz, so I won't be pressing them to play only to 60Hz. That is half an octave of headroom on the excursion side. I only wish that I had the RB-75's, which have an 8" horn instead of 6. It may be that your mains lack some sensitivity. Klipsch speakers are notorious for their "forward" presence but even moreso for their high sensitivity.

Finally, in really high end systems, the mains become as large as dual 12" driver systems like the Neosis 212HT (101 dB sensitivity) which can play much lower than 120Hz.

MBoutte
south Louisiana
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Klipsch RB-35
Klipsch RB-35
Acoustech HT-65
Cerwin-Vega CV-2800

B&C 21SW152-4 [21" critical Q]
kramskoi is offline  
post #20 of 39 Old 01-11-14, 04:47 AM Thread Starter
Senior Shackster
 
kramskoi's Avatar
martin
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 102
Re: The 18SW115 is history...lets see what a 21" can do!

Quote:
chrapladm wrote: View Post
So when are you going to try the 21" BC IPAL or 21" RCF 551?
Well the first choice 21IPAL is a dream only available to OEM's. I am sure one might "get loose" into the DIY community eventually. The LF551, is just the matter of finding one that wont' break the bank. It has a little longer throw at 15mm, larger coil at 5.3" and more xmech at 72mm. The qts is .33 but an LT would make it workable.

MBoutte
south Louisiana
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Klipsch RB-35
Klipsch RB-35
Acoustech HT-65
Cerwin-Vega CV-2800

B&C 21SW152-4 [21" critical Q]
kramskoi is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now




PLEASE COMPLETE ALL REQUIRED FIELDS BELOW... THANKS!

REQUIRED FIELDS ON THIS PAGE
YOU MUST COMPLETE ALL OF THESE

Username
Password
Confirm Password
Email Address
Confirm Email Address
Random Question
Random Question #2




User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
PLEASE READ BELOW PRIOR TO ENTERING AN EMAIL ADDRESS!

ATTENTION!

YOU MUST ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT!

Activation requires you reply to an email we will send you after you register... if you do not reply to this email, you will not be able to view certain areas of the forum or certain images... nor will you be able download software.

AN INVALID EMAIL ADDRESS WILL CAUSE YOUR ACCOUNT TO BE DELETED!

See our banned email list here: Banned Email List

We DO NOT respond to spamcop, boxtrapper and spamblocker emails... please add @hometheatershack DOT com to your whitelist prior to registering or you will get nowhere on your registration.


Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML is not allowed!
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome