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post #11 of 32 Old 09-23-15, 10:39 AM
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Re: Pro amp help needed

just to let you know, those HST drivers can handle stupid amounts of power. that Dayton SA-1000 isn't putting out even 1000 watts. it's been measured at BARELY putting out half that rated continuous power. it's really only a 600 watt amp. Meaning you're leaving those subs DRASTICALLY under powered. to really get the most out of them you should get at least a Peavey IPR 2 7500. If you're that amp limited and don't want to upgrade to a pro amp, then just get the HT-18's or the Dayton HO 15's...... you're not going to see a wild improvement without the power to back it up
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post #12 of 32 Old 09-23-15, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Pro amp help needed

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just to let you know, those HST drivers can handle stupid amounts of power. that Dayton SA-1000 isn't putting out even 1000 watts. it's been measured at BARELY putting out half that rated continuous power. it's really only a 600 watt amp. Meaning you're leaving those subs DRASTICALLY under powered. to really get the most out of them you should get at least a Peavey IPR 2 7500. If you're that amp limited and don't want to upgrade to a pro amp, then just get the HT-18's or the Dayton HO 15's...... you're not going to see a wild improvement without the power to back it up
I am well aware of the stupid amount of power the HST drivers can handle. The ONLY reason I am looking at the HST drivers is the added Xmax and the fact they can do decent in small boxes.

I figured before I spend a grand on an amp I'd use what I have to keep the cost lower since the drivers alone are 700 bucks.

I have access to both a XLS 1500 and a XLS 2500, hence why I'm wiring the boxes for speakon and binding posts. But just because they can handle 1.2 gigawatts of power doesnt mean thats how much I need to give them for them to do their thing. I barely get the Dayton above 1/2 gain before its too much sub for me.

Nick is using a iNuke 6000 for his dual HST-11's and I can PROMISE you that amp doenst do anything even CLOSE to its rated spec's, but he seems to be happy with the volume he gets...

My point is underpowering the subs may well be what happens, but as long as I'm not CLIPPING THE AMP doing it, besides just having some potential left on the floor its not gonna blow the amp.

Additionally that XMax allows for some PEQ not possible with the other drivers due to their excursion limits. So I can tweak things a bit to even out my room response without wondering if I'm bottoming out the driver.

Last edited by EndersShadow; 09-23-15 at 11:42 AM.
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post #13 of 32 Old 09-23-15, 11:36 AM
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Re: Pro amp help needed

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I am well aware of the stupid amount of power the HST drivers can handle. The ONLY reason I am looking at the HST drivers is the added Xmax and the fact they can do decent in small boxes.

I figured before I spend a grand on an amp I'd use what I have to keep the cost lower since the drivers alone are 700 bucks.

I have access to both a XLS 1500 and a XLS 2500, hence why I'm wiring the boxes for speakon and binding posts. But just because they can handle 1.2 gigawatts of power doesnt mean thats how much I need to give them for them to do their thing. I barely get the Dayton above 1/2 gain before its too much sub for me.

Hell Nick is using a iNuke 6000 for his dual HST-11's and I can PROMISE you that amp doenst do anything even CLOSE to its rated spec's, but he seems to be happy with the volume he gets...
whatever floats your boat. Just saying taht the added Xmax means nothing if you can't even get CLOSE to the xmax with that little power (even at 2000 watts you'd not reach Xmax in a 3 cu ft box unless you add a ton of boost)

that NU 6000 is definitely over rated, but it puts about between 1200 and 1800 watts per channel (1200 being closer to continuous). which is a lot closer to the 2000 watts those puppies can probably handle.
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post #14 of 32 Old 09-23-15, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Pro amp help needed

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whatever floats your boat. Just saying taht the added Xmax means nothing if you can't even get CLOSE to the xmax with that little power (even at 2000 watts you'd not reach Xmax in a 3 cu ft box unless you add a ton of boost)
If you just model the sub in a sealed box then yes, your right. But Audyssey is undoubtedly going to add some boosts and cuts (which then change the amp load and cone excursion) to even out response and help it out down low.

If I'm still using the Dayton as well I plan to add some PEQ so that I boost the lower end response and that also jacks up the excursion of the driver as well. Additionally I'm mainly modeling the driver with filters in WinISD so the VA load in WinISD stays below 800 because I know the Dayton isn't really a 1000 watt amp.

And in the end those WinISD models are only really a template for how loud it can get. Its doesn't account for how it actually measure in your room at the main LP, at the levels you listen at.

Which is why I'm busting out the UMIK-1 mic on Saturday (while my wife is at a baby shower) to measure my room response with the HT-15 I have in my ported box to see how it measures to hopefully get a baseline for what the HST drivers will add.

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that NU 6000 is definitely over rated, but it puts about between 1200 and 1800 watts per channel (1200 being closer to continuous). which is a lot closer to the 2000 watts those puppies can probably handle.
Has anyone measured it if the output stays steady under 20hz or not? Mainly I'm curious if it also has a 18db per octave filter that starts at 20zh like the Crowns. Because I dont mind dropping some cash on either the XLS 1500 or 2500 as the fan noise on them shouldn't be too bad, and I also trust the Crown specs to be closer to actual measurements as well.
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post #15 of 32 Old 09-23-15, 05:17 PM
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Re: Pro amp help needed

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If you just model the sub in a sealed box then yes, your right. But Audyssey is undoubtedly going to add some boosts and cuts (which then change the amp load and cone excursion) to even out response and help it out down low.

If I'm still using the Dayton as well I plan to add some PEQ so that I boost the lower end response and that also jacks up the excursion of the driver as well. Additionally I'm mainly modeling the driver with filters in WinISD so the VA load in WinISD stays below 800 because I know the Dayton isn't really a 1000 watt amp.

And in the end those WinISD models are only really a template for how loud it can get. Its doesn't account for how it actually measure in your room at the main LP, at the levels you listen at.

Which is why I'm busting out the UMIK-1 mic on Saturday (while my wife is at a baby shower) to measure my room response with the HT-15 I have in my ported box to see how it measures to hopefully get a baseline for what the HST drivers will add.



Has anyone measured it if the output stays steady under 20hz or not? Mainly I'm curious if it also has a 18db per octave filter that starts at 20zh like the Crowns. Because I dont mind dropping some cash on either the XLS 1500 or 2500 as the fan noise on them shouldn't be too bad, and I also trust the Crown specs to be closer to actual measurements as well.
over at AVS they have... the non dsp amps will start dipping at 10hz or so (it might have been 5), the DSP units have an undefeatable 20hz HPF in them.
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post #16 of 32 Old 09-23-15, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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over at AVS they have... the non dsp amps will start dipping at 10hz or so (it might have been 5), the DSP units have an undefeatable 20hz HPF in them.
Thanks I remember that now. They use some sort of cheat in the DSP to raise the bottom end IIRC.

So the iNuke is mainly used for its DSP and bottom basement price for the wattage v the higher price v the same wattage from a Crown if I'm reading this right then.

iNuke needs a fan mod and some heat sink work whereas the Crown likely doesn't but it's got less wattage as well.

I wonder how well the HST models impedance wise at 2 ohms.... That pulls a of a lot of wattage out of the Crowns by I'm worried it would clip...

Now a SET of Crown 1500s bridged for 4 ohms at 1500 watts would do decent (and maybe be in budget with some friends and family discounts) but a set of 2500s would NOT be...
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post #17 of 32 Old 09-24-15, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Pro amp help needed

Mike:

Between the three amps listed below what would you go with knowing its going to be in the same room as the speakers (for noise purposes) and why.

XLS 2500: 2400 x 1 @ 4 ohms bridged, 775 x 2 @ 4 ohms stereo
XLS 1500: 1550 x 1 @ 4 ohms bridged, 525 x 2 @ 4 ohms stereo
iNuke 6000: (not bridgeable), 1200 x 2 @ 4 ohms stereo
iNuke 6000 DSP: (not bridgeable), 1200 x 2 @ 4 ohms stereo
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post #18 of 32 Old 09-24-15, 02:23 PM
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Re: Pro amp help needed

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Mike:

Between the three amps listed below what would you go with knowing its going to be in the same room as the speakers (for noise purposes) and why.

XLS 2500: 2400 x 1 @ 4 ohms bridged, 775 x 2 @ 4 ohms stereo
XLS 1500: 1550 x 1 @ 4 ohms bridged, 525 x 2 @ 4 ohms stereo
iNuke 6000: (not bridgeable), 1200 x 2 @ 4 ohms stereo
iNuke 6000 DSP: (not bridgeable), 1200 x 2 @ 4 ohms stereo


depends on how much money you want to spend ... 2 of the XLS 2500's would be the best bet out of those choises.. they're silent and pushing 2000-2400 watts per driver would make you king of the world.


for price. the Inuke6000 is unbeatable...

HOWEVER, if I had my choice, get an IPR2 7500 or a CV 5000 ... both will put a dedicated 2000 watts per channel and the IPR2 is actually rather quite out of the box... then toss on a minidsp for good measure
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post #19 of 32 Old 09-24-15, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Pro amp help needed

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depends on how much money you want to spend ... 2 of the XLS 2500's would be the best bet out of those choises.. they're silent and pushing 2000-2400 watts per driver would make you king of the world.


for price. the Inuke6000 is unbeatable...

HOWEVER, if I had my choice, get an IPR2 7500 or a CV 5000 ... both will put a dedicated 2000 watts per channel and the IPR2 is actually rather quite out of the box... then toss on a minidsp for good measure
I ask because I might be able to snag the 2500 as part of a trade with a buddy. That leaves me with no cost for it, and I can only really afford to do one HST-15 right now anyway.

So that will move me from:

HT-15 in a 4 cubic foot ported box tuned to 21hz w/ the Dayton SA-1000 (not to be confused with the older SPA-1000)

TO

HST-15 in a 3 cubic foot sealed box, stuffed to the brim with polyfill driven by a bridged XLS 2500.....

I'm not really super keen on the MiniDSP as I'd prefer to just let Audyssey XT 32 do its thing and then measure with REW and my UMIK-1 mic to see how well its done and IF I then need help (when I'd buy it).
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post #20 of 32 Old 09-24-15, 02:36 PM
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Re: Pro amp help needed

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I ask because I might be able to snag the 2500 as part of a trade with a buddy. That leaves me with no cost for it, and I can only really afford to do one HST-15 right now anyway.

So that will move me from:

HT-15 in a 4 cubic foot ported box tuned to 21hz w/ the Dayton SA-1000 (not to be confused with the older SPA-1000)

TO

HST-15 in a 3 cubic foot sealed box, stuffed to the brim with polyfill driven by a bridged XLS 2500.....

I'm not really super keen on the MiniDSP as I'd prefer to just let Audyssey XT 32 do its thing and then measure with REW and my UMIK-1 mic to see how well its done and IF I then need help (when I'd buy it).


ahh, if you can get it in a trade. why NOT... one of those bridged for an HST 15 would be siiiiiiiiiick (although, if you can get an XLS-2500 why not get the HST 18 ??? not much more and give you a good chunk more output,)


from experience, Audessey does an OOOOOOOK job of setting eq on a sub, but NOWHERE near what REW and a minidsp can do. especially when boosting the low end (which a sealed sub will most likely need)... it's not a big deal, you can pick one up down the road if you're wanting too, but a minidsp or a the dsp in an inuke will trash X32 in terms of it's eq ability for subs.. X32 really shines on speakers, but with subs it's kinda "meh"
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