A cheaper alternative to the Behringer Amps? - Page 5 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #41 of 102 Old 01-01-10, 12:33 PM
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Re: A cheaper alternative to the Behringer Amps?

An alternative.. What about the neater brother of EP2500, the EUROPOWER EPX2000 from the upper class, it is class H ciruit with switching mode power supply quite promissing in delivering the fast burst of low frequency power. Is lighter too. I do not actually know but it looks 1 to 1 like the quality QSC amps but is cheaper.
Just checked the prices for EP2500 and EPX2000-they are the same 519.99$ from behringer online shop

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post #42 of 102 Old 01-01-10, 12:36 PM
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Re: A cheaper alternative to the Behringer Amps?

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tyler durden wrote: View Post
Is this statement really the case!?
Uh, why yes it is.
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post #43 of 102 Old 01-01-10, 12:40 PM
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Re: A cheaper alternative to the Behringer Amps?

I tend to lean to the side of Steve on the amp selection, based on what Ive read when researching on an amp for myself.

For one, PA amps are designed for long term high power use, so what we're throwing at them for the most part will be peanuts in comparison. Headroom is always a big bonus. Most of the features of a subs plate amp are bypassed. Usually phase is left one way or the other, and even if its not, the amps Audyssey can make up for that. We still have the option of gain on the amp, a phase swap is easy with a polarity swap, and powering a second sub should one wish to have a second really tips the VFM towards the PA amps. Even PEQ isnt of major concern with Audyssey, and I get consistently good results with Audyssey.
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post #44 of 102 Old 01-01-10, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: A cheaper alternative to the Behringer Amps?

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Uh, why yes it is.
I didn't really doubt it, just wanted others to comment on it.

If 30W would do, why would anyone ever need 500W, let alone 1300W!? Surely the additional power is never tapped into, and therefore is a complete waste.
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post #45 of 102 Old 01-01-10, 12:58 PM
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Re: A cheaper alternative to the Behringer Amps?

IIRC, that is based on a measurement only 1 meter from the driver. There are other factors at play once the driver is in an enclosure, then the enclosure put inside a room. The sub design itself makes a difference too. Also if you add in a LTC in your amp then depending on how you design it, 100watts can blow the driver to bits.

1000 watts of power handling ability doesnt necessarily mean you need to put 1000watts into that driver. Its really a measure of what the driver can handle depending on your design, its not a must that you have to pump all that in. With DIY subs though, to make the builds easier and more predictable, we're keeping the design more simple. Large highly capable driver, in a sealed box, with plenty of power. Its the cheapest way for us to build, and get results beyond what we pay for.

I've spent around 800-900 on my build (projected spend on completion) and some of the comments Ive had are that something similar from a commercial company would cost anywhere from 3k-5k. One person gave me a figure that whatever you buy generally actually costs 25% of that to produce.
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post #46 of 102 Old 01-01-10, 01:05 PM
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Re: A cheaper alternative to the Behringer Amps?

Quote:
Moonfly wrote:
a phase swap is easy with a polarity swap
Yes, for 180 degrees, but you can also get much finer control than that. The subwoofer distance setting in your receiver or pre/pro adjusts the delay to the sub, so it can be used as a fine phase adjustment.

Quote:
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If 30W would do, why would anyone ever need 500W, let alone 1300W!? Surely the additional power is never tapped into, and therefore is a complete waste.
A doubling of clean power results in a 3db increase assuming the driver has more excursion to give. Dynamic bass peaks in both movies and music (mostly movies) can be very large, so while you may be ok floating along with 16 watts or less most of the time, when a dynamic scene comes along, and the power starts climbing into the hundreds of watts territory, you can't get another 3db unless the power doubles. Demands can easily go from 16 watts to 800 watts to 2000 watts and back down to 5 watts within a matter of seconds. It's best to have that capability on hand if possible, or else you squash your dynamic capability.


Quote:
Is this statement really the case!?

Uh, why yes it is.
Actually the LFE channel requires 115db capability for reference playback - when you then add in the <80hz redirected bass from up to 7 channels, you really need a subwoofer system capable of ~118db over your intended range. A single sealed 15" definitely won't get you there, but I doubt you listen at reference. That capability is what you would ideally shoot for though.


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post #47 of 102 Old 01-01-10, 01:15 PM
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Re: A cheaper alternative to the Behringer Amps?

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Yes, for 180 degrees, but you can also get much finer control than that. The subwoofer distance setting in your receiver or pre/pro adjusts the delay to the sub, so it can be used as a fine phase adjustment.

Like I say, with the ability to implement Audyssey as well, the lack of variable phase really isnt a big issue for the DIY'er.
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post #48 of 102 Old 01-01-10, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: A cheaper alternative to the Behringer Amps?

So, how much power can I use with that driver, in the planned enclosure?
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post #49 of 102 Old 01-01-10, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: A cheaper alternative to the Behringer Amps?

Also, in my searches I always come across lots of car audio amps that have very high power ratings, is there a reason these are not used in home applications?
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post #50 of 102 Old 01-01-10, 01:45 PM
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Re: A cheaper alternative to the Behringer Amps?

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So, how much power can I use with that driver, in the planned enclosure?
I have modelled it already to handle 1000 watts, and give a QTC of .675. It exceeds xmax (but not xmech) by 1mm at 10hz when using maximum power.

If you want, I can reduce box size by ten litres, raise the QTC to .707 and the driver just touches xmax at full power at 10hz. Ive modelled it base on the sound of my sub which gives excellent mid bass sound quality and a good balance of depth. I know you have a good in room response as well which will play into your hands and give very good in room response below 20 hz (the Monoliths tuning point) and probably decent performance down to 10hz.

Quote:
tyler durden wrote: View Post
Also, in my searches I always come across lots of car audio amps that have very high power ratings, is there a reason these are not used in home applications?
Yes, they run of 12v car power.
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