LMS-5400 buy-in - Page 15 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
 
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post #141 of 312 Old 09-19-07, 05:15 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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noah katz wrote: View Post
Not to be a wet blanket, but is there perhaps excessive enthusiasm considering the level at which these tests were done?

Ilkka, roughly what was the max excursion seen in this test?
The maximum peak to peak excursion wasn't more than around 10 mm, but actually that's not the point here. The point is that both the TC-2000 and the SDX15 were already starting to "struggle" at these power levels (around 15-20 watts). And you can check my latest GP session results for the TC-2000 (multiple subwoofers), and see that it isn't the worst driver there is. Far from it. The LMS-5400 is clearly superior to both TC-2000 and SDX15 when it comes to distortion. Of course it will be interesting to see what kind of difference there is when we use a few kilowatts of power. I doubt it goes smaller than these low-level tests show.
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post #142 of 312 Old 09-19-07, 05:37 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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Ricci wrote: View Post
I knew I should have bought 2 of these I guess the best that we can hope for now, if the MSRP is $2999, is that they'll be $1499
and if you got friends at shops about $700, I am getting a pair and showing off to people I spent $3000 on subs
post #143 of 312 Old 09-19-07, 05:47 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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ssabripo wrote: View Post
interesting you say this Steve...good to hear you change your tune. I guess it took Ilkka's measurements to prove to you why I was sackriding this driver over and over again since last year way before I did the two towers.
Oh come on Shervin, be a sport. Neither you nor Steve had any real data to back up those assumptions and shall I say high hopes back then. Granted the specs and the marketing seemed good but as we have seen, those can't be always trusted.
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post #144 of 312 Old 09-19-07, 07:20 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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Ilkka wrote: View Post
Oh come on Shervin, be a sport. Neither you nor Steve had any real data to back up those assumptions and shall I say high hopes back then. Granted the specs and the marketing seemed good but as we have seen, those can't be always trusted.
actually, not quite bro'. Before I landed the two Ava18's, I kept the LMS5400 on the purchase button, and had several discussions, simulations (with the given T/S), comparisons with the ava18 LLT simulations, etc.............Willy can testify, as he jumped in there as well.

but all I heard back was "the ava18 is the superior driver, bang for buck", "LMS5400 doesn't seem like a good LLT driver at all...more like sealed" and "why would anyone buy this driver when you can buy 3 RL-P15's for teh same price", etc,
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...hlight=LMS5400
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...&&#post8465380

I'm just saying.....


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post #145 of 312 Old 09-19-07, 07:42 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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ssabripo wrote: View Post
actually, not quite bro'. Before I landed the two Ava18's, I kept the LMS5400 on the purchase button, and had several discussions, simulations (with the given T/S), comparisons with the ava18 LLT simulations, etc.............Willy can testify, as he jumped in there as well.

but all I heard back was "the ava18 is the superior driver, bang for buck", "LMS5400 doesn't seem like a good LLT driver at all...more like sealed" and "why would anyone buy this driver when you can buy 3 RL-P15's for teh same price", etc,
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...hlight=LMS5400
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...&&#post8465380

I'm just saying.....
No no, Sherv, you got me all wrong (well what could be expected when two non-native English speaking persons are trying to communicate over the Internet ).

I meant that even you didn't know that the LMS would perform this good back then. We only had the marketing talk but nothing else. So IMO it's bit unfair to say that SteveC needed my measurements to finally admit it. And because that also goes to me.

The LMS-5400 isn't still a good LLT/EBS driver. It's suited for small sealed and small ported (via passive radiators) alignments.
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post #146 of 312 Old 09-19-07, 11:46 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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ssabripo wrote:
interesting you say this Steve...good to hear you change your tune. I guess it took Ilkka's measurements to prove to you why I was sackriding this driver over and over again since last year way before I did the two towers.
Quote:
Ilkka wrote:
I meant that even you didn't know that the LMS would perform this good back then. We only had the marketing talk but nothing else.
Exactly - what was the sackriding based on at the time? Flowery wording and a BL linearity chart was all they gave us, a simple FR and THD measurement like Ilkka did - which should be well, well within their capabilities - would have said tons more than even 20 pages of marketing speak.

I still don't like the parameters of this driver, as it makes it difficult to "milk" the performance out of it, but the ultra low distortion and nice FR still win me over enough to be excited (if not about this specific driver, the LMS technology). For as great as it would be in a small sealed with EQ, it would be that much better if it were suited towards a LLT. For the cost, if given the choice, I'd still take 3 Avalanche 18s to this driver, but that's not an option anymore. Now if they use this LMS technology to make an 18" driver better suited to a LLT that doesn't need its own powerplant to extract 90% of the performance.....say one that would work well in ~650 liters with a 13hz tune, and came in a bit cheaper, that would obviously be my top choice.

Quote:
noah wrote:
Not to be a wet blanket, but is there perhaps excessive enthusiasm considering the level at which these tests were done?
It was a comparative test, so I think there is plenty of reason to be excited. It is much, much better than either of the other drivers.


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post #147 of 312 Old 09-20-07, 01:39 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

"Really?"

Yes. Titanium's advantages are high strength/mass and temperature resistance, both well beyond what is required for speakers.

"Of course it will be interesting to see what kind of difference there is when we use a few kilowatts of power. "

Yes, my point was only about the free-air THD test; even with the same motor an 18" would be expected to have lower distortion than a 15".

I did not mean to dispute that it's the top dog subwoofer driver.
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post #148 of 312 Old 09-20-07, 04:38 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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I still don't like the parameters of this driver, as it makes it difficult to "milk" the performance out of it, but the ultra low distortion and nice FR still win me over enough to be excited (if not about this specific driver, the LMS technology). For as great as it would be in a small sealed with EQ, it would be that much better if it were suited towards a LLT. For the cost, if given the choice, I'd still take 3 Avalanche 18s to this driver, but that's not an option anymore. Now if they use this LMS technology to make an 18" driver better suited to a LLT that doesn't need its own powerplant to extract 90% of the performance.....say one that would work well in ~650 liters with a 13hz tune, and came in a bit cheaper, that would obviously be my top choice.
Actually it looks pretty good in 650 liters tuned to 14hz with a 10" diameter port if you ask me. You could use an 8" port but its not going to be enough if you really crank it.
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post #149 of 312 Old 09-20-07, 04:54 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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noah katz wrote: View Post
Yes, my point was only about the free-air THD test; even with the same motor an 18" would be expected to have lower distortion than a 15".

I did not mean to dispute that it's the top dog subwoofer driver.
Yes, naturally 18" will have less excursion and therefore less distortion at the same output level, but the difference isn't this large. So the linear motor is definitely working.
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post #150 of 312 Old 09-20-07, 06:28 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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Actually it looks pretty good in 650 liters tuned to 14hz with a 10" diameter port if you ask me. You could use an 8" port but its not going to be enough if you really crank it.
You are kidding right? You must be talking about the avalance, because none of the LMS looks good on 650 liter enclosure.
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