HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage - Page 10 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #91 of 124 Old 12-27-15, 11:58 PM
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

Just wanted to share a bit of info of some recent tests.

The center channel... behind my head is diffusion... I sit 3' off the wall... currently nothing near my projector to kill the ceiling first wave reflection for me so here is some impulses

Center Channel on all 3 tests

1. Orange line at 4.5ms is diffusion while the green/purple is a 2'x4'x4" absorption panel behind the MLP so this is the direct result of absorbing vs diffusion when you are within 3' of the back wall.

2. Green line major spike at 7.2ms is the first reflection at the ceiling part for me is behind my head on the ceiling since i'm a vaulted ceiling. The purple/orange have a significant reduction due to me placing a 2x4x4" panel above the MLP acting as a cloud. This was temporary and I was just holding it in place but shows a significant reduction at this particular spot.

I need to rethink my diffusion stuff. I'm thinking of placing absorption on any spot less than 15ms on the impulse response as it'll be easier for me to chase around the room with an absorption panel in my hands and testing to find the trouble spots. anything beyond 15ms will be diffusion IF the distance is greater than 6 feet away if it is under then I will stick to absorption.

I did some initial tests and I like the sound w/ the absorption behind the MLP better so this tells me I need to change up my back wall a bit. It's OK though since I can reuse my diffusion panels elsewhere. The spot at 2ms is probably the reflection off the floor and will test this at a later point as well.

I mainly posted this for others to clearly see the affects of aborption vs. diffusion within the critical 0-5ms and 5-15ms areas.
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post #92 of 124 Old 12-28-15, 06:49 AM Thread Starter
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

You have some interesting challenges.

In this thread I discuss the setup methods I have used successfully in 2 different rooms with the very speakers you are using.

You might consider using the added reflective surfaces to bring your room and the main reflections all "back to square" in spite of the room's shape. I think it is your best shot at getting a great SS&I result.
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post #93 of 124 Old 12-28-15, 07:43 AM
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

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AudiocRaver wrote: View Post
You have some interesting challenges.

In this thread I discuss the setup methods I have used successfully in 2 different rooms with the very speakers you are using.

You might consider using the added reflective surfaces to bring your room and the main reflections all "back to square" in spite of the room's shape. I think it is your best shot at getting a great SS&I result.
Thanks Mate - I did see this thread.
I'lll try following it, can I ask you where I should start placing my speakers according to your method? I tried following the method in this current thread but end up with speakers about a meter fro the listening position and ridiculously wide apart...

Also how high should the reflective panels be? I have a wife with her own ideas about aesthetics... ;-)

Thanks mate, perhaps we should move to the other thread?

Thank you!
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post #94 of 124 Old 12-29-15, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

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BloomBloom wrote: View Post
Thanks Mate - I did see this thread.
I'lll try following it, can I ask you where I should start placing my speakers according to your method? I tried following the method in this current thread but end up with speakers about a meter fro the listening position and ridiculously wide apart...

Also how high should the reflective panels be? I have a wife with her own ideas about aesthetics... ;-)

Thanks mate, perhaps we should move to the other thread?

Thank you!
HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage-img_20151229_141123.jpg

I am embarrassed that I did not get a better photo than this. It is of one of the two panels Sonnie Parker had built for his room. Two boards joined by piano hinge to be self-supporting and can allow any angle between the two pieces.

Each board is 16" wide (I think) - I would go 12" wide (minimum/optimum) for the back piece and 18" (min) to 24" (optimum) wide for the side piece, 3/4" or 1" thick, 4 ft high (minimum/optimum) for the ESL speakers. It can be finished nicely to be minimally obtrusive, or decorated (let your wife) as long as the surface is hard-reflective.

Placement and angles are critical, so small tack strips to control that once it has been determined are important.

My ESLs are 58" c-to-c apart (dimension B in the Guide), 49" LP to speaker plane (dimension A), and LP is 109" from the wall (dimension C). I am away from home right now, I will measure the toe-in angle when I return in a week.

Be sure to put absorptive material on all of the front wall area between the panels. It can actually be reflective (a diffuser) but only if NONE of the angles involved reflect sound directly from back of speaker to LP. Most diffusers do not accomplish this, that is why I say to make it absorptive.

With the reflective panels controlling the main rear reflections, your setup becomes independent of the front wall and you can square up your setup relative to the other three walls of the room.
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post #95 of 124 Old 12-30-15, 08:31 AM
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

Hi AC

It seems you have some very near field listening going on there. Is that because of your room or do you just prefer it that way ?
I have not tried it your way because I have always had large rooms, but I think I will give it a go today.

Good Listening

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post #96 of 124 Old 12-30-15, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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Mid-field, by my way of thinking, and it is mainly because of room dimensions & arrangement. I could actually place them wider but I cannot widen the placement of the reflective panels mounted on the front wall (stairway to the left, wall & hallway to the right) accordingly.

In a bigger room, I would spreqd them more.

The soundstage is much wider than the speakers, does not feel restrictive at all, and the spaciousness feels symmetrical even though the room is not (proper reflection control helps).
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post #97 of 124 Old 12-30-15, 11:35 AM
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

I totally agree with your presentation, I just have not previously listened at what I thought to be relatively near field. Today is my day to do whatever I want so I will give this a try with my Tang Band home made speakers. They are easier to move

Good Listening

Jack

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post #98 of 124 Old 12-30-15, 01:21 PM
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

Thanks Wayne,
I don't think the Mrs will allow me such reflective surfaces in the room (partly because they'll hid the windows)...

in any case I rearranged the speakers in a 'mid-field' set up (as per ML's extra tweak in the manual).
I'll see how it sounds. It did bring the speakers in a bit more into the room. They are now 1.82m from the front wall.

Can I ask you what method you'd use to place these ESL speakers in a room? Ignoring the reflections part?
Also what do you think about the rake angle?

Thank you!
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post #99 of 124 Old 04-08-16, 11:33 PM
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

Can someone suggest a song I should listen to while doing this, with specific points in the music and what I should be listening for, i.e. where should a certain instrument sound come from etc.
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post #100 of 124 Old 05-17-16, 07:21 AM
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FInally had a chance to try the 2 channel setup recommended by Wayne. Took a bit of work as I had to move my Triton Ones from behind an acoustically transparent screen & down off a front stage. After some placement adjustments I settled for the Tritons to be 14 ft from front wall & 4 ft 6 inches from side walls. The speaker plane is 7 feet from mlp with speakers about 8 feet apart centre to centre. The first thing I noticed was the huge depth of the sound stage & strong centre. Voices were crystal clear as if there was a speaker directly in front of me. The depth extended back much further then distance between speakers. The width of the sound stage would extend to behind both speakers then extending further to the left & right.

I used Wayne's ratio's & then adjusted due to rear part of room being asymmetrical. I also toed in speakers directly at the mlp eliminating some mid/high frequency roll off.
By bringing speakers further into the room I was able to increase bass levels yielding much better results. The bass sounded much fuller. The Triton Ones have powered subs build in with a control dial on the back. When speakers are located behind acoustical screen I turn bass turn down due to proximity to front wall. They can become very boomy if you don't turn them down.

My mlp is 8ft back from tweeters but occasionally I hear music directly from right speaker. Not sure if I need to increase distance from mlp or increase distance from side walls. More tweaking to be done.

Overall very happy with results. Speaker location is however temporary as this being a theatre room speakers will go back behind acoustic screen. If I had the real estate I would definitely build a dedicated 2 channel listening room.

Thanks Wayne I appreciate all your hard work in getting this out to us.

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