HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage - Page 5 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #41 of 124 Old 09-16-14, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

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Or two speaker sized metal sheets two feet from the wall on each side of the speaker sending sound back to the wall. The other side of the sheet could be absorbent material.
Of course you are joking. But it is just the kind of crazy experiment I might try. You would not believe...

Think I will stick to the electronic version this time, the cleanup will be much simpler!
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post #42 of 124 Old 09-16-14, 03:58 PM
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

Ah Wayne, you are the mad scientist, the Dr. Emmett Brown, of audio! Of course, only the Doc could have figured out how to build a time machine!
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post #43 of 124 Old 11-09-14, 05:29 PM
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

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Determine The Starting Points - The Complex Way

Option 1 - Best - No Restrictions, Start with the Speaker Positions

Starting with your room width as 3.130 units ((1 + 1.618 + 1) x (1.4 / 1.618)), a weird number, the logic follows) place the speakers spaced between the side walls using units of 0.866:1.4:0.866 (this would normally be expressed as 1:1.618:1, but we have multiplied these numbers by 1.4 / 1.618 or 0.866 in order to keep with our A = 1, B = 1.4, C = 2.4 starting point) and 1.4 units (C - A) away from the front wall (measure from the center of the tweeter). This is good for reducing room mode interaction. Use C = 2.4, which also makes A = 1.

For example, in a room 15.66 feet wide, speaker spacing would be 4.33 feet from side walls, 7 feet from the front wall, and 7 feet apart (B). The LP would be 12 feet from the front wall (C) and 5 feet from the speaker plane (A). Following the Golden Mean (1.618:1), this places the speaker positions with left/right room symmetry where they will be least affected by room modes.

This all works out in most rooms anyway. We suggest always keeping the LP at least 3 feet from the back wall and its reflections, so in some smaller rooms the A, B, and C values must be reduced, keeping the same ratios, until that 3 feet guideline is satisfied. Then the Golden Mean guidelines are no longer satisfied.

Now skip down to Make Adjustments below.

Option 2 - 2nd Best - No Restrictions, Start with the Listening Position

Place the center of head of the LP equally between the side walls, as room symmetry allows, and make the distance from the front wall - dimension C - equal to 2.4 units of measure and the distance from the back wall 1.48 units of measure. Set the distance from speaker to speaker at 1.4 units of length (dimension B), and the distance from the speaker plane to the LP at 1 unit (dimension A).

For example, if the room is 19.4 feet long, locate the listener's ears 12 feet back from the front wall (C), leaving another 7.4 feet to the back wall. The speakers will be spaced 7 feet apart (b) and the LP will be 5 feet from the speaker plane. Following the Golden Mean (1.618:1), this places the listening position with left/right room symmetry where it will be least affected by room modes.

This all works out in most rooms anyway. We suggest always keeping the speakers at least 3 feet from the side walls, so in some smaller rooms the A, B, and C values must be reduced, keeping the same ratios, until that 3 feet guideline is satisfied. Then the Golden Mean guidelines are no longer satisfied.
Hello all! If only I knew half as much as I thought. The simple way seemed simple enough, however the complex, for my simple mind needs a little more clarity with the calculations/ratios. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
Read more: http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...#ixzz3IcHlpclJ

Hope to learn something new, and know how to use it.
Mike
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post #44 of 124 Old 11-09-14, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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I wholeheartedly agree. Hoping to do an update in the next few months.
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post #45 of 124 Old 11-09-14, 10:12 PM
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AudiocRaver wrote: View Post
I wholeheartedly agree. Hoping to do an update in the next few months.
I'm looking forward to the update.

Control4 Automation Programmer
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post #46 of 124 Old 05-08-15, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

A related article was posted recently, A Soundstage Enhancement Experience, refining and enhancing the soundstage and imaging with MartinLogan ESL hybrid electrostatic speakers in Sonnie Parker's Cedar Creek Cinema, March of 2015. Some new techniques are covered which will eventually be covered in an update to this Guide.
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post #47 of 124 Old 06-11-15, 04:45 AM
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

Interesting...for solid rectangular rooms this should work nicely. Good stuff! Have a few questions.

In my experience, few listening rooms are solid rectangles where 3 are typically rectangular walls and one asymmetrically opened to another room. Say for example the RH wall is asymmetrical or contains some sort of non-linear feature (sloped ceiling, bay window, etc.?). What adjustments/considerations should be made? Second Q is, what effects do doors have on your scenario?

Yours for higher fidelity,
Philip
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post #48 of 124 Old 06-12-15, 12:30 AM
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

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inline_phil wrote: View Post
Interesting...for solid rectangular rooms this should work nicely. Good stuff! Have a few questions.

In my experience, few listening rooms are solid rectangles where 3 are typically rectangular walls and one asymmetrically opened to another room. Say for example the RH wall is asymmetrical or contains some sort of non-linear feature (sloped ceiling, bay window, etc.?). What adjustments/considerations should be made? Second Q is, what effects do doors have on your scenario?
I have such a room, wall with windows on the left side, 7 ft. wide opening to the kitchen on the right. So basically, I have only one early side wall reflection point, where I placed a Lazy Boy with blankets and a pillow on the back rest, giving me a large, 4 1/2 ft. tall treatment of sorts. It traps the sound, keeping the wall/window reflection from reaching the listening position. It works well, bringing a measure of symmetry, but I still have a few channel imbalances showing in measurements. It is not terrible, but...


Not satisfied with that, and I am working with GIK Acoustics to dial in the room. Amongst the treatments I am ordering, will be a 24″ x 60″ x 4″ Free Stand Bass Trap panel for the left wall. This and the chair will help simulate the doorway on the right.

Furniture works, room treatments are better. You can build your own or get some ready made. It is best to use measurements to guide the process, and talking to an acoustician can be helpful, as well.

We have an acoustics sub forum dedicated to that purpose, if you'd like the advice of professionals here at HTS.

"I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit." - Bill Hicks
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post #49 of 124 Old 06-12-15, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

Where there are doors, odd room shapes, and other such variables, they are definitely more of a factor in a more reverberant room. In a room with carpeting, any significant amount of acoustical treatment, lots of draperies, anything that gives a fair amount of sound absorption and keeps the reverb time low, I have found them to be much less of a factor, almost to the point of ignoring them.

Except, as Dennis (Tesseract) has shown with his room, eliminating asymmetrical early reflections is big, as is reflection control in general. More needs to be added to the Guide about that.

A large alcove or hallway off to one side, if it contains no acoustical treatments and has lots of reflective surfaces, would tend to distort and clutter the soundstage and imaging. There is no solution in terms of speaker positioning. If your asymmetrical situation is anything like that, the only real solution is treatment to reduce reverb time.

If your room has low reverb times and no early reflection problems, then the asymmetry might not trouble you. It is also dependent upon how picky a listener you are. For most listeners, I believe the above is a good guideline to start with.
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post #50 of 124 Old 07-26-15, 04:01 PM
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Re: HTS Two-Channel Speaker Setup Guide for a Deep Soundstage

Dear Wayne,
my sound system for music is hupstair and my HT is in the basement of our house. As I reported in an other thread, your suggestion for a 2 channels made marvels downstairs .
So I decided to try it with my stereo upstairs. Again, I have more depth in the sound stage; specially with a full orchestra for instance.
Your speakers setting does not respect the isocele triangle rule that everybody recommend
It is a surprise. Difficult to explain.
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