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post #31 of 89 Old 03-01-13, 06:15 PM
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Re: Ps4

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Using GDDR5 may not be all that horrible if AMD sticks to 512 KB of L2 cache per core for the CPU side. If they cut that to 256 KB, then there will certainly be a lot of swapping using GDDR5. Seems AMD is switching back to the old 2-tier memory structure for their low power chips.

I'd like the next console to NOT look like a George Foreman grill, which looks like next to all the square boxes in an A/V rack.
The original CELL BBE was a hot chip compared to many of its contemporaries. Newer parts based on AMD will be built on a smaller manufacturing process which will allow for cooler chips that consume less power. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Sony did a great job on cooling the first generation PS3. I remember all teh XBOX failures back then and just before it was released, Sony demonstrated the PS3 will run at full power while wrapped in towels and with out failure. I is and was a well engineered machine. I have a feeling they will do much the same for the next PS4.

I think Microsoft will learn from it's mistakes but Sony will always do a better job at engineering hardware than MS; since that's what they have been doing since before Bill Gates was ever conceived.






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post #32 of 89 Old 03-01-13, 06:42 PM
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Re: Ps4

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I can tell by looking at the early specs and details that Sony has designed the Playstation 4 around a price point with the intent of making a thin profit or breaking even.

You are thinking of retail costs. Sony will buy this stuff in volume and get a hefty discount in the process. Right now, AMD APUs sell for around $100 retail. BD-Drive might cost <$40 in bulk. The case will probably cost +/- $5. Considering the PS4 won't include separate ram for the CPU and will share GDDR4 or 5 for CPU/GPU, this alone will save Sony about $30-40 per unit. Controllers and peripherals have a high profit margin to begin with and won't add much to the cost. $299-399 does not seem too unreasonable; which would put it on par with a similar spec PC that comes with a mouse and keyboard.

Lets remember that Sony sold the first generation PS3 for a huge loss. Sony was supposed to use a CELL BBE that had all of it's SPE and PPE's enabled but decided to cut back on that spec to improve the manufacturing yields. And that primary reasons for it being so expensive were the cutting edge technolgies CELL BBE (lots of duds, large DIE size), Rambus RDRAM, Blu-Ray Drive, etc which at the time were't being mass produced by anyone in volumes that were economically friendly.
I realize that the better amd processors only retail for around $130, but they are also not even close to the graphics power that the PS4 is suppose to have, and the new processor is 8 cores vs. 4 on the current ones, and they are using more memory. There is so much more money involved in creating this new chip. I am sure sony will get a good deal, but that extra graphics power isn't going to come without extra cost.
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post #33 of 89 Old 03-01-13, 08:59 PM
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Re: Ps4

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I realize that the better amd processors only retail for around $130, but they are also not even close to the graphics power that the PS4 is suppose to have, and the new processor is 8 cores vs. 4 on the current ones, and they are using more memory. There is so much more money involved in creating this new chip. I am sure sony will get a good deal, but that extra graphics power isn't going to come without extra cost.
I could build a similar spec'd PC version of the PS4 using RETAIL parts for around 500-600, including a case.

The cost of modifiying an existing design is noting compared to the time & effort it took to make the ground up design of the time CELL BBE. And modern gaming PCs have (don't recall the exact number) 12x more processing power than the PS3 or XBOX. With progress comes lower cost . As for the memory, RAMBUS used in the PS3 is like 5x the price per GB than standard GDDR_ and currently, you can pick up 8GB of DDR3 for under $50 (retail).
(more details later when I have time)


The next gen PS4 controller was built with FPS gaming in mind:


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Last edited by 8086; 03-02-13 at 12:13 AM.
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post #34 of 89 Old 03-02-13, 10:33 AM
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Re: Ps4

Sony has confirmed that the PS4 will offer 4K movie downloads, with the 4k definition movies to require 100GB downloads!

I think I see my ISP smiling and thinking how much money they will rake in..
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post #35 of 89 Old 03-02-13, 02:50 PM
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Re: Ps4

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I could build a similar spec'd PC version of the PS4 using RETAIL parts for around 500-600, including a case.

The cost of modifiying an existing design is noting compared to the time & effort it took to make the ground up design of the time CELL BBE. And modern gaming PCs have (don't recall the exact number) 12x more processing power than the PS3 or XBOX. With progress comes lower cost . As for the memory, RAMBUS used in the PS3 is like 5x the price per GB than standard GDDR_ and currently, you can pick up 8GB of DDR3 for under $50 (retail).
(more details later when I have time)


The next gen PS4 controller was built with FPS gaming in mind:

I actually think I am starting to agree with you on where price may fall. I think I am giving the GPU too much credit. I was thinking the GPU would be like a current retail price of $300 separate card. I can see that I might be way off. I also think I might be underestimating how much these companies might be ripping the consumer off at retail prices.
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post #36 of 89 Old 03-04-13, 05:10 AM
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Re: Ps4

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I actually think I am starting to agree with you on where price may fall. I think I am giving the GPU too much credit. I was thinking the GPU would be like a current retail price of $300 separate card. I can see that I might be way off. I also think I might be underestimating how much these companies might be ripping the consumer off at retail prices.

No game console has ever used a graphics "card" the graphics chip has always been soldered on to the motherboard. The (1st gen) XBOX used a separate chip for graphics and I belive later revisions of the console consolodated the two on to one. The same was true for the PS2, which started off as seprate custom Emotion Engine CPU & Reality Synthesizer Graphics Engine; later revisions (PS2 Slim) combined the two on to one die (single chip).

I should also mention that the XBOX had custom chips. So did the WII. The game cube had a custom chipset desinged by ATi. So did the N64 and almost every other modern game system made in the past 20+ years. Many of those were from scratch, purpose made ground up designs. The PS4 will take an existing design, modify it to suit the client (Sony), which will result in a quick turnaround time and lower cost compared to the Cell.

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post #37 of 89 Old 03-04-13, 09:26 AM
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Re: Ps4

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No game console has ever used a graphics "card" the graphics chip has always been soldered on to the motherboard. The (1st gen) XBOX used a separate chip for graphics and I belive later revisions of the console consolodated the two on to one. The same was true for the PS2, which started off as seprate custom Emotion Engine CPU & Reality Synthesizer Graphics Engine; later revisions (PS2 Slim) combined the two on to one die (single chip).

I should also mention that the XBOX had custom chips. So did the WII. The game cube had a custom chipset desinged by ATi. So did the N64 and almost every other modern game system made in the past 20+ years. Many of those were from scratch, purpose made ground up designs. The PS4 will take an existing design, modify it to suit the client (Sony), which will result in a quick turnaround time and lower cost compared to the Cell.
I wasn't meaning that I thought it had a separate graphics card. I was simply meaning I thought it had the same power as a $300 separate graphics card. I am just starting think that I may have been giving too much credit to the graphics power for the PS4. Either way, I can see how this new platform will save sony a bunch of money because the most of the R&D has already been done. I do also see how they might buy these platforms very cheap. , just a blu ray drive used to cost a bunch back when the PS3 was introduced, and now you can buy them pretty cheap even at retail prices.
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post #38 of 89 Old 06-10-13, 09:46 PM
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Re: Ps4

as of E3 not 5 minutes ago. there will be NO restrictions on used games or online mandatory checks ala the Xbone!!!!!!!!!!!!!

also debuting at a $399 price point

Last edited by Mike Edwards; 06-10-13 at 10:16 PM.
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post #39 of 89 Old 06-11-13, 07:40 AM
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Re: Ps4

Even with the news of different pricing and all I will still be getting the Xbox One


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post #40 of 89 Old 06-11-13, 10:18 AM
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Re: Ps4

Well I guess I won't have to sit this gen.out I will be getting a PS4 for many reasons but this is the main one.


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