[costanza]

I've bought an older/un-used 350 watt / 4 ohm Stryke Audio plate amp. I want to get a 10" driver for a small (1 to 2 cu. ft.) sealed subwoofer for tight/punchy bass for rock music in a medium sized living room (matched to a pair of psb Alpha B1 bookshelves x'd-over at 60 - 80Hz). I'd like to spend NO MORE than $150 on the driver (shipped). What about the Dayton Reference HF 10" for $105 + shipping? Any other recommendations?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!

 

[evilskillit]

Creative Sound Solutions SDX10 is $139. The Mach 5 Aduio IXL 1.2.2 is 165, hair over your max limit. Both are also great subs.

The Dayton HF subs are great subs, however I had a friend who bought the kit from dayton for the plate amp, 10" HF sub and 1 cu ft sealed box and was pretty happy with it untill he heard the ported Dayton HF 12" sub I built for my friend. Unless you need a really small box size you might consider a bigger driver. Like the MJ-18M which is $155, when it comes back into stock, or a ported box because even tho rock doesn't require really low extension you might be somewhat dissappointed by the quick drop off of the 10 in a small sealed box. However I doubt you will dislike a Dayton HF 10 sealed, you just might find you want more.

I enjoy all sorts of music but my meat and potatoes tends to be rock and metal, things like Iron Maiden, In Flames, Megadeth, Soilwork etc etc and I've found that given the constraints of my budget I am happier with a ported 12 than I would have been with a sealed 10 or 12.

If you get the SDX10 you can at least use some parametric EQ on the low end to bring it up a bit due to the extra xmax and power handling. As for the MJ18 sealed is not optimal for it but due to its large displacement it can play lower and louder than the 10s even tho its xmax and power handling are comparable.

 

[Mike P.]

Here's a comparison of the 10" Dayton Reference HF and the CSS SDX10, both in 2 cu.ft. sealed. This is assuming the plate amp has a high pass filter around 18 hz.

 

[joorge]

The 10" sub may keep up with the output of your current mains. A 12" would do it for sure and would be the best choice. You have enough power for either. Optimum cabinet size is around .85 cu/ft sealed for the Dayton 10" and around 2.2 for the 12".

There is not much difference (per UniBox) using the more expensive drivers in a 10" or 12" sealed box with 350W. The Dayton is pretty well matched for that and reported to hard to beat for music.

I think ya need to get to the low 30Hz for max satisfaction from music. These should reach the high 30s per the design software. If you get the typical boost from room response, you will be real close.

There are a number of threads using the Dayton 12"HF in a small sealed box for music. Most people seem very satisfied. I think you would need to go ported to get the low frequencies found in movies, but that wasn't the question.

The good thing is the Dayton HF and your amp will get you there nicely, if ya swap to a ported box in the future.

 

[brandonnash]

Why not a smaller but higher tuned ported box. If you're just doing it for music and going almost consistently rock, why not have a tune of around 35 hz or so? Most of your music won't be that low, and you'll be able to get some higher SPL's with it.

 

[joorge]

That is interesting. Are you just speculating about the ability to tune in the upper 30's and increase SPL with a small ported box? I can't seem to make this happen. An example citing box size and port details would be helpful.

 

[brandonnash]

I just got to work. Will try to post some graphs when I get home.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[evilskillit]

It will be interesting to see what you come up with. I have a friend who built a sub using the Dayton 10" HF in a 1 cu ft box but now he is wanting to go ported. It seems like a good idea the biggest problem being that with that little sub if you get the port tuned very low and then make it big enough to not have port noise then you have real issues getting the whole port to fit inside the box unless you use a slot port and fold it over it's self a few times. But we may still do it because he wants more output without spending any more than what a new cabinet would cost him.

Also if you did something like a 1 or 2 cu ft box tuned to the 35hz range that causes the sub to go into over excursion pretty quickly below 30hz, if his amp does not have a built in adjustable high pass filter then he will need to get something to take care of that if he ever watches movies or anything on that sub and that will cost extra. Still a nice idea tho, so hopefully you come up with something good.

 

[brandonnash]

Well this instance I was giving was for a music only system. I would probably not go that route if he starts watching movies with it. It still may not be an issue with that small amount of power but excursion may be exceeded.but the woofer may still be in the mechanical limits. Is he absolute in his restrictions with the size of the enclosure? He could have much greater options with a bigger box.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[brandonnash]

Well, I can't get my pictures to upload to resize down to where they're viewable. The graphs would be huge. If you want I can try and e-mail the wpr files to you and you could just open and have a look in winisd that way.

I don't think my original plan for mid 30's tuning would work very well. You'd have to have a tiny box and even then the port just wouldn't fit. I think maybe ported in the low-mid 20s in a box still your size would work well. Most of those plate amps have a HPF built in I've just found out much to my disliking. You would still be fine with that if it doesn't have a HPF, I just wouldn't tell him to try to play WOTW at reference levels with it. This is all assuming that you get the 10" dayton HF. It's on sale now too!!

Looking at the size restrictions and everything, I might be more inclined to just keep it sealed if there's going to be a dual role including movies. You really just need a bigger box to keep things in check like port length and size. That would keep your port flow down pretty well. Try your best to talk him into a bigger box and we can get some good results that way.

 

[costanza]

Thanks for the input folks
I received the amp today. The spec sheet says it has 6db boost at 30Hz, if that makes a difference.
I can do 12", but I'd like the smallest box possible. CSS has plans on their site for a 16" sealed cube for their SD12. Something like that would be nice

 

[Mike P.]

The spec sheet says it has 6db boost at 30Hz

Are you going with the Dayton Reference HF 10?

 

[costanza]

Are you going with the Dayton Reference HF 10?

That was my first choice, but I may go with a 12" from Dayton or someone else. What is set in stone is: Stryke amp and sealed box 2 ft. or under (preferably, MUCH under!). I want tight, very musical bass. I'm afraid of getting the 10 and wishing I had gotten the 12 later

 

[Mike P.]

Go with a 12. The 6 db of boost will limit the subs output due to Xmax being reached sooner. The Dayton 10 reaches Xmax at 30 hz with 65 watts.

 

[evilskillit]

I can appreciate wanting as small a box as possible, I want a small box. However I've seen people say it here and in my messing around I have found it to be very true, there are 3 major variables in a DIY subwoofer, SIZE, PRICE and QUALITY/OUTPUT. Pick 2 and disregard the 3rd, you can have a really awesome sounding huge sub for not alot of coin. Or you can have a small moderate or unimpressive sounding sub for cheap. Or you can have a small really good sounding sub for alot of money. You can split the difference if you like but if you split it right down the middle what you'd end up with is a medium sized, decent sounding sub that was moderately expensive, heh.

Not saying that a sealed Dayton 10 or 12 HF wouldn't sound good. For the price they'll sound pretty awesome, but if you want really good bass extension in as small a box as possible you'd want something like a shiva-x or maelstorm-x, something like a behringer ep2500 and some decent eq...

Given your expectations tho I think if you get the dayton 12 you'll be happy. The 12 models decently and with that amp in a 1.0 cu ft box it models fairly flat to 30hz. It will only handle about 130watts but thats still enough to get you over 104db to 30hz.

 

[joorge]

When I started building a sub I had a particular amp and box size in mind, too. All I needed was some quick advice on a magic driver to make it sound like I expected. I found out that these things follow certain physical rules, not my desires.

With that 6dB boost and the plate amp power, you no longer have a "cookie cutter" design that would be hard to screw up in a 1 to 2ft box. The 10" is not an option. I think Mike pointed out that you are liable to blow it before ya get to high listening levels. You need some real help with the design.

In particular, ya need someone with the experience to factor in room gain along with the amp boost and translate that to a musical box design. You won't find all of that in the design programs.

So, how am I helping?

Well, I hope it helps to set your expectations at an obtainable level. There is no magic box. All of the variables that could be changed to accommodate a certain box size are mostly locked in. You might find a driver that will help things along, but i doubt it will fit the $150 design criteria.

Since box size is all that is left, it will be the size it needs to be to sound good with the rest of the stuff. Hopefully, that will be close to 2 ft. It may not be. Could be this dog won't hunt without an equalizer, too. I don't know as It's over my head.

Mike P. is yer guy. He can give ya the best options and the smallest box size that will sound like ya want. I am looking forward to learning from your adventure.

 

[evilskillit]

The MJ-18M models pretty well in a 2 cu ft box and would pretty much just be able to handle your amp at max power. They're only $155 also, but they're out of stock right now . If I were you and I could bring myself to wait I might pretty seriously consider that.

What I'm seeing is basically everything using that amp in a 1 - 2 cu ft box drops off pretty quickly after 30 hz. You just won't go deeper without a bigger box or ported box. For most rock and metal that will be ok tho since most normal instruments don't have fundamental frequencies lower than the mid 40s. However if you listen to any pipe organ stuff, or techno, rap, or anything else electronic some of that stuff also tends to have notes into the 30s and 20s.

Anyways, kick some ideas around and let us know what you settle on. No matter which one you build you'll probably end up being happier than you are now without a sub.:bigsmile:

 

[Mike P.]

I can appreciate wanting as small a box as possible, I want a small box. However I've seen people say it here and in my messing around I have found it to be very true, there are 3 major variables in a DIY subwoofer, SIZE, PRICE and QUALITY/OUTPUT. Pick 2 and disregard the 3rd, you can have a really awesome sounding huge sub for not alot of coin. Or you can have a small moderate or unimpressive sounding sub for cheap. Or you can have a small really good sounding sub for alot of money. You can split the difference if you like but if you split it right down the middle what you'd end up with is a medium sized, decent sounding sub that was moderately expensive, heh.

Not saying that a sealed Dayton 10 or 12 HF wouldn't sound good. For the price they'll sound pretty awesome, but if you want really good bass extension in as small a box as possible you'd want something like a shiva-x or maelstorm-x, something like a behringer ep2500 and some decent eq...

Given your expectations tho I think if you get the dayton 12 you'll be happy. The 12 models decently and with that amp in a 1.0 cu ft box it models fairly flat to 30hz. It will only handle about 130watts but thats still enough to get you over 104db to 30hz.

Somethings not right with these graphs, there should be a hump in the response due to 6 db boost at 30 hz. What did you enter in the EQ/Filter tab?

 

[evilskillit]

Actually in winisd when you select to add an eq/filter the default for parametric EQ is a 6db boost at 30hz which is what he said his amp has, so thats what I added. Did I do something wrong? I'm still learning quite a bit as I go so maybe I didn't do something right. In a box any larger than 1 cu ft there was a hump, I just assumed the small enclosure was basically cutting out about 6db at 30hz so the 6db parametric eq just brought it back up to level. Afterall both enclosures show a FS of around 45 which means they start dropping pretty hard below that frequency, right?

 

[costanza]

WOW! This is alot to take in! I do apprecate it greatly though
Are you telling me, in theory, the Shiva-X in a 1 cu ft. sealed enclosure (minus the space taken up by the driver), with my amp, would produce a "flat" response, and the bass would be tight and "musical" (not boomy/ one-noted)?
THANKS!!!!!!!