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#### matthijs87

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Something pretty thick on the rear - at least 6" and at least 2 2x4' panels.

For your side walls you'll want more surface area and thicker. Again 2 2x4's each side and at least 4" thick with a bit of a gap behind them.
I'm sorry, i dont get it, maybe its becouse im dutch and there is some misscomunication, but you where speaking here about 2 panels on the left side and 2 panels on the right side, correct ?

Do i need the second panel on the same side to mount right next to it, above it, or would there be another way to check where to place? for as far i could check there is not a second reflection point on the same wall to find with the mirror technique.

#### bpape

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Yes - 2 on each side wall forming essentially a 4x4' square. Same thing in the rear but 6" thick instead of 4"

#### matthijs87

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Wow, now i'm really getting confused. :dizzy:

I think its because of the differences in how you are used to describing measurements in the US. It's diffrent in Europe.
Though i thought i understood. So essentially this is what your talking about ? (check pic)

I thought all this time you where talking about feet. like 2 feet by 4 feet when talking about 2x4' which would be panels from 1.20 by 60 cm converted into European standards.

But if im understanding you right this time you meant with 2 2x4's pannels 4 pannels from 4 ft by 4 ft each ? which would be 4 times 1.20 meter to form a square.
Thats impossible, that would be a square of 2.50 meters by 2.50 meters. Thats huge for this room. Where am i going wrong here in my calculations ?

Thanks for your patience by the way :grin2:

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#### bpape

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No. You're right. 2x4' panels. 2 each side.

#### matthijs87

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Oh! Oke. I will try to get it to work then. So correct me if i'm wrong but 2x4' times 2 in the form of a square is just the same as 4x4' in a square right ? this must really sound silly but for a European that's really confusing to say it like that. But im glad i'm understanding now ). So i guess the gaps you where talking about where based then on in between the 4 and not behind the panels right ?

#### bpape

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Yes - sorry to be confusing. The air gaps are between the wall and the panel to get the front of the panel farther from the wall.

#### matthijs87

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No that's not on you, that's more my understanding of U.S measurements i guess .

Yes I know the air gaps are between the wall and the panel. But are there supposed to be gaps between the 4 panels as well ?

For example when you say : "At least 4" thick with a 4" gap." Then are you talking about a air gap or a gap between the 4 panels like the picture above ?

#### bpape

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No. We're talking about the gap between the panel and the wall.

#### matthijs87

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Oke, thank you, then i know everything i need to know. I will be back with some updates and tests when its all finished )

#### matthijs87

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Yes - 2 on each side wall forming essentially a 4x4' square. Same thing in the rear but 6" thick instead of 4"
Man, im sorry, but i am still not sure if i am understanding this right. last time i was sketching two situations at which your response was, yes you are right.. but which situation was right i am now wondering ?

As you can see in the quote your saying 2 on each side wall forming a 4x4' square.

So when talking about 2x4' are you talking about the size of the panel ? (2 feet by 4 feet) or are you talking about the amount of panels ? 2 TIMES 4' panels (so 2 panels of 4ft by 4 ft) . which would take 8 panels per side in total to get 2 squares. This makes a huge difference

#### bpape

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Yes. The panels are 2x4'. So put 2 side by side and it makes basically 4x4'.

#### bpape

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10" to do 100 Hz? Don't think so. 4" across a corner will go 60 ish easily.

#### matthijs87

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I did use REW to get my frequency response as good as possible, that took quit some time before i found the right spot, i found only one position that worked for my frequency response, so as bpape recommended i looked for that and am now trying to fix the acoustics from this starting point. I guess that room simulation option would have done that job faster, but yea i found it manually, so no problem.

Yes to much isolation would sound to dull i can imagine that's why i am not isolating everything but just covering the direct and early reflection points. The grey stuff which is all over my ceiling is not actually doing very much, it may look like isolation but behind it is wood, so that might still compensate for the dullness and if its really needed i will ad some diffusers later on for sure but i first want my room to sound acoustically good.

I have read allot and seen allot of youtube vids about the subject but i am not sure anymore. I thought diffusers would be best for the more bigger rooms. My main concern now is to get the waterfall graph good. There is still to much going on in this room allot of high as well by ear, so i guess that will be taken care of with the panels i am making now. The sub and bass i am not sure about, i still don't know exactly how to read this waterfall exactly so i am putting my trust on bpape on that one.

i am using 6 inch for the corners so that's already 15 cm, that's pretty thick right ? and with the gap behind it it should do some extra isolation if i am right.

But i am a bit confused now, would diffusion be enough ? or should it then be a combination of the both ?. or can either do the job at its own way under certain circumstances ? See this is actual the same what you find on the internet if you look long enough, different opinions different arguments, different situations. I would like to do what is best for my room of course. :smile:

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#### bpape

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6" across the corner will do very well. Down into the high 40's.

#### bpape

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That's why you use an independent lab like Riverbank.

#### matthijs87

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33 inch ? thats insane. I thought this gap is just needed to let it more effectivly bounce back into the absorbtion panels,
why should the gap then be a quarter ? and if this theory is right should you then not also measure the thickness of the panel within that calculation ? i mean if the gap should be 33 inch then the total is 39 inch thats indeed eating up allot of my room and not realy an option.

But what about the rear, front and ceiling ? would this be enough or better with diffusion ? is it situation dependend ? (size of the room/irragular shaped room ? and what is your point of view on this bpape ?

#### bpape

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If you do the 33" all that does is create a hump in the absorption at that frequency. The gap is to get the leading edge farther from the hard surface. Generally the max you do is the same gap as the thickness of the absorber to keep things linear.

#### matthijs87

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If you do the 33" all that does is create a hump in the absorption at that frequency. The gap is to get the leading edge farther from the hard surface. Generally the max you do is the same gap as the thickness of the absorber to keep things linear.
Yes that makes sense, changing the frequency response "drasticly" is not that much needed, how the room sounds is way more important.

So does this mean you where talking about two diffrent things ?altering frequency response vs acoustic response ?

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