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Hello! My question is what setup gives me better low end with movies, 2*225 L sealed Maelstroms with Antimode 8033 driven by Crown XTI2000 or 2*SVS PB13 Ultras.:dontknow:
The Maelstroms would be in sealed boxes because that`s about max enclosure size i can do and don`t think Streamingaudio.se sells any PR`s!
So if anybody could do comparsion i`d be very thankful!:hail:
 

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Hi Mel, Welcome aboard!

I dont have any hands on use of the Maelstroms however I do have a PB13U and can say that two of them wold not disappoint you at all. Very well built and lots of punch.
 

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Well...

Each Maelstrom will needs its own amp to get the most out of them (or one very powerful amp). They need 2000W+ to shine, especially in a sealed application. The Maelstroms, with proper amplification, should have maybe a tad more output in the low-end. The driver in the PB13 is very impressive though. If you're handy, it'd be worth it to go for the Maelstroms. Not as versatile as the PB13, but for the $$$ you should have more output down low.
 

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Unless I'm doing something wrong: From 30Hz and up the dual maelstroms, with the one amp, would give you ~>120dB from 30Hz and up without room gain. Drop to 110dB @ ~15Hz. I don't know about the SVS ones.
 

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I hate to make these kinds of comparisons but I guess it is in my job description.

Rather than focusing on the SVS, I'll just make some generalizations. Bass is all about moving air. The driver that can displace more of it, wins. There are only two variables in a subwoofer driver design that increases swept area, the cone area, and the stroke. Cone area of our 12" driver is 491 cm^2, area of our 15" driver is around 800 cm^2, cone area of the 18" is around 1183 cm^2.

Just based upon cone area, you need 2.4 12" drivers = one 18". You need 1.5" 15" drivers = one 18". Lets say that the 13" is somewhere between those two, I'd guess it is actually around 550-600cm^2, but that is a guess. Even on the upper end of that, you need two of the SVS 13" drivers to equal the same swept area as a single Maelstrom-X.

The second area we can pick up swept volume is with stroke. If the cone is able to move further, it displaces more air. I have no idea what the actual magnetic field size, suspension size etc... of the SVS. I know ours is around 60mm P-P of usable stroke which is a lot. The thing with extra stroke, is you also have to have power to actually use it. If you have a driver that has 100mm P-P excursion, it is no better than one with 50mm P-P excursion unless you have the amplifier to use it (simplification).

The one other variable to consider is that for a give extension, the box size scales with the cone size. As the cone gets bigger, the box size has to scale in a linear fashion in order to maintain the same SPL at a give low frequency cutoff. Larger driver = larger box which is the primary reason large diameter drivers are not popular in commercial subwoofers.

So.... all of this is a generalization. Your comparing apples to oranges in several circumstances because your comparing ported-sealed, 13" driver - 18" driver, commercial sub vs. DIY sub. All of those variables influence things. Only you can weigh your options against your priorities. The Maelstroms certainly have the ability to easily outpace the SVS option but there are other tradeoffs that go along with that (size, cost etc...) I think at the end of the day two of either of those subs are going to give you plenty of output. I'd look at the other variables and see what best fits your needs.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ok! Had a "serious":foottap: conversation with my wife and got the permission for bigger enclosures:bigsmile:
So i think i saw somebody putting Maelstrom in 300L box tuned to 17Hz with 6" aeroport about 17,3 inch long... i could do this, if that would be better choice for movies.
About the power issue, isn`t there only 3db difference between 800W or 1600W? I only have one 16amp fuse for my living room, so i can`t use very powerful amp(s)!
 

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Ok! Had a "serious":foottap: conversation with my wife and got the permission for bigger enclosures:bigsmile:
So i think i saw somebody putting Maelstrom in 300L box tuned to 17Hz with 6" aeroport about 17,3 inch long... i could do this, if that would be better choice for movies.
About the power issue, isn`t there only 3db difference between 800W or 1600W? I only have one 16amp fuse for my living room, so i can`t use very powerful amp(s)!
That looks good. Give it what you can for power. Perhaps later you can get a 20 amp circuit added in. The single 6" port could be a limiting factor when it comes to higher power. It really depends on how hard you push the pair of subs, it could be a none issue. 2 6" ports at 99cm would certainly do.

When building the box, be sure it is nice, sturdy and well braced.
 

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That looks good. Give it what you can for power. Perhaps later you can get a 20 amp circuit added in. The single 6" port could be a limiting factor when it comes to higher power. It really depends on how hard you push the pair of subs, it could be a none issue. 2 6" ports at 99cm would certainly do.

When building the box, be sure it is nice, sturdy and well braced.

I tend to recommend single 8" ports. I've not experimented to see where the threshold is for chuffing and noise. You get a LOT of output from a 6" flared port before it causes noise issues but a single Maelstrom-18" will certainly be able to cause chuffing at the limits.

On the power, you don't see continuous current loads like most people are calculating. There is a power supply in the amp for a reason and that is partially to deliver transient needs. I run an entire system off a 15A breaker in my lab and don't have any issues.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
 

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I am with Kevin on the port. I would use nothing less than a single 8" for the Maelstrom. I'd either go for something like NEODan's Max build (uses slot port) or sealed....or PR, but most would say just spend that money on a 2nd driver.
 

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Dual Maelstroms would definitely have more driver displacement than the SVS subs, but since the SVS is ported and the Maelstroms would be sealed, I'd actually wager that you would end up with more low end output from the SVS subs.

Now that you are looking to go ported with the Maelstroms, the SVS subs don't stand a chance. 300 liters with an 8" diameter port that is 36" long with yield a tuning between 17-18hz and looks to be a pretty potent performer. If you want to go nuts (you know you do), I would recommend increasing enclosure size to 400 liters and keeping an 8" diameter port that is 36" long for tuning ~15hz. With this design, you should be able to run quite safely without the need for a high pass filter.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
First, i want to thank everybody for the comments so far!:clap: What about this setup: 2* M21 in 200-300L sealed boxes, 1200W for each driver!? Kevin said that bass is about moving air, so how much more bass there would be if using M21s compared to M18s? Cone area M18 1183cm2 against M21 1550cm2:scratch:
When Kevin posts T/S parameters of M21, could somebody compare those two with WinIsd...
As you can see my hunger for bass is growing but that`s because i never want to upgrade my subs again:heehee:
 

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First, i want to thank everybody for the comments so far!:clap: What about this setup: 2* M21 in 200-300L sealed boxes, 1200W for each driver!? Kevin said that bass is about moving air, so how much more bass there would be if using M21s compared to M18s? Cone area M18 1183cm2 against M21 1550cm2:scratch:
When Kevin posts T/S parameters of M21, could somebody compare those two with WinIsd...
As you can see my hunger for bass is growing but that`s because i never want to upgrade my subs again:heehee:
Two 18's would displace 15.6L of air. Two 21's would displace 20.4L of air. This is assuming both have an xmax of 33mm one way.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Two 18's would displace 15.6L of air. Two 21's would displace 20.4L of air. This is assuming both have an xmax of 33mm one way.
That`s about 1/3 more displacement:eek: I think Kevin said that the motor is same in M21...
Oh, i forgot to ask, Antimode8033 has a function LIFT25 which puts subsonic to 10Hz and rises 15-25Hz area by 4-7db! Does`nt that help sealed enclosure to reach deeper or will there be problems... maybe with power?
 
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