Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

41 - 60 of 237 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,069 Posts
Discussion Starter #41
Ryan,


Yep you did. These drivers rock in ported subs. The sub bass is so much more defined than the sealed sub and I just watched Transformers 2 on a moderate volume and the low bass is defined, deep and doesn't muffle any other frequencies. You hear even the quiet thuds and the sub 15hz so much more there. There wasn't even much air coming out of the ports so I really don't see the high port velocity I have been even the slightest of issues. Wathing the film was so much more interesting.

I will run some graphs tomorrow as it is getting late and re run audyssey aswell.

I just can't imagine two of these! :rofl:

cheers
graham
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,074 Posts
IMHO people get too caught up in charts numbers and overall data. too caught up in theory and misconception. stereotypes. to me, step back. if you port it, you are going to get over a double gain somewhere. your FR may look nasty... but that does not mean it's going to sound nasty. my IB3 looks terrible but it sounds amazing!

I reiterate: why all these people sealing 21's rather than porting 18's? I know I am right. But I can't prove it. I think more people would be happier. O well.... I'll worry about me and everything everyone is going to say when I break more rules with my next build.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,069 Posts
Discussion Starter #44
Mike,

Thanks mate. I am going to start building the second one today. I was surprised when watching transformers 2 that even at volume -22db on the onkyo which would be my normal watching level there was little air coming from the sub even when the low bass scenes were being played but there was alot of low sub 20hz bass. Even playing bassotronics at -25db which is not too loud but still there was alot of low stuff and not much air and certainly no noise and I haven't even routed the exit port. Not too sure at say volume -10db and up but that would be too loud for the neighbour to take.

Obviously at the moment Audyssey is calibrated with the old sub so that could change but I was surprised that when I put the BFD on how much the level of bass went down. It really lowers the levels with that on so I turned it off and the levels shot up. I may see if I can get away without it.

I have the gain on the behringer on max and the sub trim level on -2db at the moment.

Will post some graphs later on for you. My other half wasn't too impressed once I got the sub in the house with the fact there will be two. This sub actually does look bigger than the first one even though it is narrower but taller. Oops!

cheers

Graham
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
IMHO people get too caught up in charts numbers and overall data. too caught up in theory and misconception. stereotypes. to me, step back. if you port it, you are going to get over a double gain somewhere. your FR may look nasty... but that does not mean it's going to sound nasty. my IB3 looks terrible but it sounds amazing!

I reiterate: why all these people sealing 21's rather than porting 18's? I know I am right. But I can't prove it. I think more people would be happier. O well.... I'll worry about me and everything everyone is going to say when I break more rules with my next build.

Ported and sealed designs sound different. You have to deal with phase delay, group delay etc.
 

·
Elite Shackster
Joined
·
7,142 Posts
Dont use the BFD with its settings for the sealed sub, the settings will just be nothing like what they need to be. You should wait till you run the graphs and take it from there, and I'm itching to see them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,069 Posts
Discussion Starter #47
Dan,

Yep I know that. Thats why I have to start again with no EQ and no BFD. Run a first graph first etc.. bla bla bla. If you know what I mean. I have done all the bracing for the second sub and now a quick sand down and I am ready to start putting it together.

I will probably run a graph and EQ roughly the one sub on its own until I get the other one finished and then EQ together.

I will be glad to see the back of Mdf shavings I know that much.


cheers

Graham
 

·
Elite Shackster
Joined
·
7,142 Posts
I just prefer the sound of sealed ones period. I'd rather use another driver and pay the cost than use a ported sub, but thats just me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,069 Posts
Discussion Starter #51
Dan,

I have to say although not calibrated yet the low end feel you get from my ported sub compared to my dual is chalk and cheese. My dual was flat to 12hz but I never got the low end thump like I get on the ported and thats only one of them. I am have played some music and am pretty impressed although we will have to wait and see once they are EQ'd but initial impressions are promising.

I am eager to see what the graph shows before EQ. Before I had a large dip around 50hz so it will be interesting to see if that is the same. I have the driver facing the left front speaker as firing into the wall the bass is too overpowering. It still sounds deep but alot clearer.

I will run some graphs tomorrow night when I get home from work. Check back then.
cheers

Graham
 

·
Elite Shackster
Joined
·
7,142 Posts
I would point to your high QTC as an issue with no feeling the low end thump as much. A point in case would be pointing to an IB, which if we are to believe all the reports of them, give the best low end punch you can get, and from what is pretty much just a sealed sub.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,074 Posts
Dan,

I have to say although not calibrated yet the low end feel you get from my ported sub compared to my dual is chalk and cheese. My dual was flat to 12hz but I never got the low end thump like I get on the ported and thats only one of them. I am have played some music and am pretty impressed although we will have to wait and see once they are EQ'd but initial impressions are promising.

Graham
he said he gets more low end thump, and he is right, cuz I get low end thump on many many many songs that you never would have known it was in.. and it sounds "intended" and even if its not it sounds great and it enhances, not colors

dueces
 

·
Elite Shackster
Joined
·
7,142 Posts
I dont doubt you guys, I just prefer the sealed sound, and I get just the low end thump I desire an expect, and more so than I did with the ultra I had.

As long as we're all happy, thats the main thing :T
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,069 Posts
Discussion Starter #56
Dan,

Agreed matey. Thats the important thing defo. The one thing I was going to say was even though my sealed sub had a high qtc, once EQd doesn't that pretty much go out of the window. Pre EQd I was down on my lower end but once I EQd I was flat to 12hz and I could still play a 5hz tone too so I wasn't short of low end punch after but it doesn't compare to the ported low end on my ported sub. I think a 18" ported sub would sound better than a ported 13" sub. I played a 10hz tone last night and even at moderate volumes it shook most things in the living room and you certainly felt it. 20, 30 and 40 were strong too but 50hz seemed a bit less but I will see tonight what the graph is telling me.

I have put all my bracing together on my second sub and fixed it to my port piece. I have marked up the side ready to glue it to the braces. I need to router a curve on the port piece then I should be able to finish it off by sunday.

cheers

Graham
 

·
Elite Shackster
Joined
·
7,142 Posts
Dan,

Agreed matey. Thats the important thing defo. The one thing I was going to say was even though my sealed sub had a high qtc, once EQd doesn't that pretty much go out of the window. Pre EQd I was down on my lower end but once I EQd I was flat to 12hz and I could still play a 5hz tone too so I wasn't short of low end punch after but it doesn't compare to the ported low end on my ported sub. I think a 18" ported sub would sound better than a ported 13" sub. I played a 10hz tone last night and even at moderate volumes it shook most things in the living room and you certainly felt it. 20, 30 and 40 were strong too but 50hz seemed a bit less but I will see tonight what the graph is telling me.

I have put all my bracing together on my second sub and fixed it to my port piece. I have marked up the side ready to glue it to the braces. I need to router a curve on the port piece then I should be able to finish it off by sunday.

cheers

Graham
The QTC doesnt change with eq'ing. You room can have an effect on it by all accounts but Ive yet to go that deep into it. From experience, the QTC is more to do with how the eventual character of the sub sounds rather than overall performance. A higher QTC will let the higher audible bass tones dominate, while a lower QTC will subdue those audible tones in favour making the sub sound deep and cleaner, but note this change cant really be seen in a simple SPL response graph.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,069 Posts
Discussion Starter #60
Here is my first graph with no EQ and no Audyssey. The sub is facing towards the left front speaker. Pretty good I think except for the peak and dip which I had the same issue as with the sealed sub but the bottom end is great. Looks like is dropping off at about 12hz. Yum Yum!

A bit of EQ and Audyssey. Job done for sub one.

The fun will start with two subs.

cheers

Graham
 

Attachments

41 - 60 of 237 Posts
Top