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Discussion Starter #161
Mike,

Thanks matey. I want to turn them up a bit more this weekend. I had to hammer in 36 7 feet fence posts so it was quite late when I got back on Saturday. Still aching all over. I want to see if they still sound as controlled at -15db to reference if I can. -25db is very loud in my living room to the point where you can have a conversation so -10db will be very loud.

cheers

Graham
 

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Great to hear your results.

Awesome build.!!!!
 

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Elite Shackster
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Finally :T

One good thing from all the different boxes you have been trying is all the experience you have gained. I think one thing we both agree on is that if music is of concern to you, then the LLT design, while accurate, just doesnt deliver. The experience gained from different designs though is invaluable, and you learn more about bass than you do about basic box construction, which I also think is important.

Good to see you finally got to where you were trying to go anyway, and great builds to boot :T
 

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Discussion Starter #164
Cheers Dan, yep I agree LLT's are great for movies but I don't think people realise just how much they loose out on music. Even the mid tune is better for music than the low tune. I just wish I could finish off the other sub but that will come along with the grills. Experimenting on different set ups has given me a great insight to how different bass can sound. I am now in a nice place with several options to play with which is great and I would recommend anyone doing a multi tune sub as the benefits far out way any losses. In fact there is nothing to loose at all but all to gain.

I just need to get my BFD in the chain so I can fine tune things. Roll on the weekend!

cheers

Graham
 

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Elite Shackster
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One of the hardest things for me to be able to get across to people is this bass can sound different idea. People just assume that a driver from 'X' will always sound the same, even if the cabinet alters performance. People seem to think you can change performance without the sound character changing, and I think that unless you have tried different designs its hard to grasp. I would liken it to travelling at 100mph in different vehicles, the speed is the same, but the experience varies tremendously.

I'm pretty happy to hear you come out with the comments you have, and I've a fair bit more confidence now in your judgement of different designs. The only thing I need to drill into you now, is that a dual drive sealed sub is better than a single drive ported when the same driver is used :D
 

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Discussion Starter #166
As you know I was going to do 2 9 cu ft sealed subs. But based on my drivers and the fact I wouldn't be able to get the qtc low enough I would have to EQ the things quite a bit and I still don't think I would have as much low end as I do now. I have to say one off the most surprising things I have found with these is how cleaner they are and. Bass does sound alot more effortless. The biggest problem with these as you know is the optimum box size which is big. When I eventually get enough money and change to something like the new Q18's in dual 2 ohms form or even by some miracle I can afford two malx's then I would benefit with using them sealed aswell.

I will run some graphs in sealed mode and EQ them to see how they sound because you never know. Based on the new size the sealed aligment would give a qtc off 0.774 which is quite a bit lower than the dual sealed sub I did first and if you remember when I took one off the drivers out and ran it as a single sealed it gave a qtc of 0.8 and they sounded a fair bit deeper.

I will let you know how I get on Dan.

If I was ever to go sealed again, it would have to be a dual sealed sub (x2). So I guess two dual FI Q18's or 4 single Q18's stacked with 4 EP4000's would be fantastic. That's alot off fan noise though.

Its a shame that Behringer don't do a more powerful and stable 2 ohm amp (they are cheaper than most), then I could simply upgrade the amp with more power.

cheers

Graham
 

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Well I expressed my concerns on your driver choice before you bought them, so I dont think that old ground needs covering again. If built properly though, a dual driver sealed sub will match a single driver sub all day long. The new Q's will even outperform it with the options to upgrade the power handling. With sealed subs its all about the costs really.

It'll be interesting to see how your sealed subs sound to you, but no doubt they wont provide the low end grunt you want. With system Q, you also have to remember that what ever the model says, it will likely increase somewhat when you put that sub in room, and further still when a second sub is added to that room, so the .775 is still likely to high, and is certainly higher than I aim for.

In short, for you personally, I think your best sticking with your ported tunes, and forgetting sealed all together.
 

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Discussion Starter #168
Dan,

I personally prefer the ported sound over the sealed one for movies and even more so now but for music a brilliantly set up sealed is going to sound better. I would have to have a dual sealed sub set up in my room to really know if I would or wouldn't prefer the sound off sealed. I would however never limit myself with ported to just one tune again knowing what I know now. The only thing I would change about my drivers is that they are dual 1 ohm and not dual 2 ohms, nothing else. I have not obviously heard other drivers in different set ups which would be hard to do. I would like to one day hear your set up Dan to compare or a possible dual sealed set up but then your set up would sound different in my room and my set up sound different in your room. The variables are never ending.

cheers

Graham
 

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The variables are never ending, but I would still argue that you havent ever heard a proper sealed sub in the way I would build it, and eq it. My sealed sub, although clearly not as powerful as the 2 ported subs Ive built, in my room did sound as deep but without the same headroom, and the graphs would back this up in purely performance terms. Add to this that if these new 2010 Q drivers had been put into sealed cabs of the same size they are in now, the QTC would be very similar to what my usual target is ;)

If it ever becomes a serious option, I'll make sure you get to hear proper sealed subs to then be able to have ticked all the boxes properly. For now, I'll stop banging on about sealed designs :D
 

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Quite a journey you have been on Graham. I think it has very much been worth it to a) achive the bass you want and b) learn a lot through experimentation.
 

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Hey Graham! Sounds like your boxes are working out great. Really glad to see all the hard work paid off! :T

If the horn thing doesn't really work out for me, I'm going to do the multiple tuned box as you did. It sounds like it really worked out great for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #175
Thanks for the nice comments. It really has worked out great. Better than I thought as I have never built a multi tuned sub but you really can tell the difference between all tunes and what works best for movies and music. I can also still run sealed and EQ if I need be.

I think the next step for me would be IB but that's a new house and a long way away.

cheers

Graham
 

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Wow Graham it's been a while since I checked in on any diy builds, you've done an awesome job on this one. What have you got up your sleeve next then?!:D
 

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Discussion Starter #177
A 4 18" IB would next but that's the next house as I cannot fit it into my current one.

I am looking forward to seeing sub junkie's results with the malx horn but's a tonne off reading and learning.

Maybe even dual 18's with the new FI subs that are coming out. That would be very interesting.

Remember I get itchy feet very quick so watch this space.

cheers

Graham
 

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A 4 18" IB would next but that's the next house as I cannot fit it into my current one.

I am looking forward to seeing sub junkie's results with the malx horn but's a tonne off reading and learning.

Maybe even dual 18's with the new FI subs that are coming out. That would be very interesting.

Remember I get itchy feet very quick so watch this space.

cheers

Graham
If you want a sneak peak, I can send you my future plans for you to take a look at.
 
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