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Sorry mech, BW™ won't work for passive 3D, too much TiO2 in the mix to retain any decent amount of polarization.

We seriously need to speak with their paint chemist. :yes:
Well I happen to have almost 30 gallons of water based aluminum paint sitting here! As we already know... Aluminum works for a great passive 3D setup.
 

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How big of a piece do you need Harp? Almost all of the theaters use circular 3d polarization. I'm assuming you would just need the glasses. :scratch:
I would need two pieces or one large piece I can make two filters out of. One to place on the flashlight or PJ and the other to look through. Of course for a real 3D setup you would need clockwise and anti-clockwise filters for right and left polarization, but for my needs just one would do. I might be able to get by with just 2 sets of glasses. I guess you can tell who hasn't been to see a 3D movie lately. :blush:
 

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The only stipulations that I would have is that the paint would have to be cheap and that HTS members would get some sort of a discount. :scratch:
My first interest in getting involved in Projection Paint was that the existing brand(s) are way to expensive for most people. I am convinced that it is also commercially interesting to have a brand that offers quality at a reasonable/low price.
That is why we start to sell/distribute a (2D) projection paint at roughly half the price of the big brands for the DIY market (it would be nice to even sell it cheaper, but every 'in-between' party takes his cut, increasing the price fourfold).
I am not sure what the quality of the paint is according to your standards, but I think it works very fine (maybe later you can have a look at it?:bigsmile:

Our goal is to offer this (cheap) paint to customers in all countries we operate in.
We would be glad to offer all HTS members a discount on our products, but I am afraid that for members overseas the shipment will be quite costly.
 

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I meant a 'sea container'. Sorry for the typo.
No problem, I should have figured that out for myself. :blush:

Now that I understand what you intend to use as a screen substrate (the sea containers) I think that the ribs on them are going to be a big problem with a 3D mix (which is by nature very reflective). I think you will have to think of a way to cover the sides of those containers to make them smoother. Since this is for a one-time use perhaps something like drywall (also known as gypsum board, plasterboard, sheetrock etc.) might be an inexpensive solution. The next thing to come to mind would be a fabric of some kind such as canvas, but keeping it taut so it won't flap or billow in the wind might be a problem.
 

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The next thing to come to mind would be a fabric of some kind such as canvas, but keeping it taut so it won't flap or billow in the wind might be a problem.
Or the cardboard on rolls they use to cover floors when redecorating house interiors: it is very strong, water resistant and with a proper primer paintable. I guess. But how do you stick it on the containers?
 

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Or the cardboard on rolls they use to cover floors when redecorating house interiors: it is very strong, water resistant and with a proper primer paintable. I guess. But how do you stick it on the containers?
The cardboard would work as well, but I have never seen it so I'm trusting your opinion. Being an outdoor event I guess rain could be a potential problem.

Are the sea containers being rented, as in must they be returned in the same condition as when you received them? While I haven't done it, I would think a good construction adhesive might work to hold the cardboard to the "ribs", it depends on how wide and flat the ribs are. The problem is that it might be difficult to remove later if that would be necessary.

By the way, if you or others would want to talk about any of this stuff via Private Message here on the forum, or via email, that would be fine as well.
 

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Hello everybody,

I am the paint nerd Rob is referring to.

I would like to invite my 3D friends to this forum, because they have extensive experience in filming and projecting 3D movies. And of course my paint 'nerd' (although this term is not really referring to a young person in his case; he is 54).
By the way, I am already 55.:eek:lddude:
I am not an expert on projection screen paint, but I am very triggered to lead this project to a successful ending.

Regards,
Geert Duyndam.
 

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Hi Geert, welcome to HTS! :wave:

It's really great to be able to talk (or should I say type) to a paint chemist. I have lots of questions, but I'll stick to the problem at hand (a 3D screen paint) for now. :)

As I said earlier, the problem in developing a 3D paint is trying to balance reflection from the metallic particles in the paint that retain the polarization of the light they reflect with somehow cutting down on that reflectivity so the screen doesn't hot spot and/or have a very limited viewing cone. The answer would seem to be to mix the metallic paint (probably aluminum based) with a matte clear finish.

The problem we have had in the past is that the clear finishes commonly used for this are water-based polyurethanes that are designed to be applied over wood, these yellow significantly over time even if they are not exposed to daylight. For your particular application (a very temporary screen) this wouldn't be a problem, but most people that build their own projection screens want something that will give good performance for years.

This probably has little to do with a 3D paint, but another concern with using water-based polyurethanes in this manner (mixing with water-based house paints) is that it seems to be like trying to breed a dog with a cat - they are simply two different animals. I have made a screen like this, and it seemed to work; but from what little I know of chemistry it bothers me.

We also try to make our screen mixes out of generally available paints which means using artist paints (such as the acrylics from Liquitex) and water-based house paints (we call them "latex" paints in the U.S. even though they contain no latex rubber).

What I would try to make a 3D mix out of would be a water-based aluminum paint that we use to make our Black Widow™ screen mix (Auto Air Aluminum-fine, a water-based automotive paint) and a matte finish artist medium such as Liquitex Matte Medium.
 

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I haven't heard from anyone on this for a while, but in case you are still interested, I made up two test panels. The first was a mix consisting of 25% Auto Air Aluminum-fine and 75% Liquitex Matte Medium. The second was 5% AAA-F and 95% LMM (we use abbreviations here a lot).

I'll give the test panels several more days to cure a little and then I'll test them with linear polarizing filters and my PJ and take photos.
 

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Look forward to your results Harpmaker. When you post those, could you mention what substrate you're using.
I'll do so now Bob. :T My substrate of choice (it's inexpensive, easy to find and easy to handle) for test panels is 1/8" tempered hardboard. I prime it with a white primer and then spray it with the mix I am testing.

I don't have a 3D PJ, or 2 PJ's to make an passive 3D system, so basically what I'll be judging potential 3D performance by is the image brightness difference between having the polarizing filter at the camera first adjusted to give maximum image brightness and then rotate it for minimum brightness.
 

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Update from Holland:
Geert is now in the process of brewing his first 3D paint.
He ordered the aluminium for the recipe.
As soon as this arrives he will produce the first batch for testing on one container.

Our first check will be pure visual: hotspotting, brightness, contrast, color depth, et cetera. And check for the 'headache factor' of the polarization.
For a more technical understanding and for measuring results of (changes in) the paint, we are looking for a Dutch (or European) kind of Mechman who can help us on the 'reflective' side of the story.

By the way, when you are in the neighborhood, you are very welcome to witness the final open air 3D projection at the end of August in Holland (2 persons can stay at my house in Amsterdam).

I will keep you posted.

In one of your (Harpmaker) messages, you mentioned that you have some questions for a paint chemist. Please feel free to ask them directly to Geert.
 

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Unfortunately for us, a screen maker (cloth, not paint) has decided to sponsor the big screen.
This is great news for my 3D friends, because this solves the problem of the uneven surface of the sea containers.
We keep on developing an affordable 3D paint however.
If you are interested in being informed on the progress and the results, please let me know. Or if you need some material for testing, in due time. I would be very honored if you would comment on the quality and see if there is anything to improve.
 

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Unfortunately for us, a screen maker (cloth, not paint) has decided to sponsor the big screen.
This is great news for my 3D friends, because this solves the problem of the uneven surface of the sea containers.
We keep on developing an affordable 3D paint however.
If you are interested in being informed on the progress and the results, please let me know. Or if you need some material for testing, in due time. I would be very honored if you would comment on the quality and see if there is anything to improve.
Sorry to hear that you lost out to a competing screen maker, but glad to hear your 3D friends now have a screen.

Yes! Please keep us informed on your 3D screen paint progress. We would be happy to test any screen sample or mix you would like to send to us. :T
 

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Just for the ones who are interested: you have not heard from us a while, since the large screen projection was cancelled and the development of another paint takes much more time as anticipated.
Affordable 3D screen paint is still one of our major goals, but it will not be before spring next year before we can start.
Untill then?
Rob
 

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Thanks for the update Rob. Please keep us posted on your future developments.

Our own 3D mix development was interrupted and we have yet to get back to it, but indications are that an efficient passive 3D screen mix will almost certainly have a limited viewing cone due to the reflective nature of real metallic particles. We are looking into another potential reflective material that may work, but it is still very much in the planning and acquisition stages.
 

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Quite a story, I have read through. What a pity without an ending. I am working on a project as well now. From my experience, pure metallic paint will work well on any smooth surface, but the painting technic plays an important role here, and very difficult to success in the overall process. It is always natural that projects will finally give up painting and looks for a commercial screen. One 100 dollars screen can ruin a 100 thousand dollar project is the reason. I guess the market for this kind of paint could be very limited. Just mix and try as a fun and it always is. I don’t mean to put an end to this thread and I will check back later. You are my heroes! See yea!
 

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Thanks for the post mrmy, and welcome to HTS! :wave:

A true metallic 3D screen mix is still in the works here, but it is in abeyance for the time being since many other projects simply take precedence.

In our limited experience, straight metallic paint (at least the ones we have tested) are too reflective and will cause significant hot spotting. The key to a good 3D mix is to control the hot spotting while not interfering with the reflective nature of the metallic particles. We have had some success with that by simply adding a clear matte medium to the metallic paint.

The commercial 3D screens I have seen leave a lot to be desired as well. ;)
 
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