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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all!
I want to build a home theater in a room 6m long and 3m wide. The screen is gonna be a 120" acoustically transparent. The desired viewing distance is 3.4m (approx. 11 ft).
I want 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos setup. Unfortunately I can't achieve the angles from Dolby guide. LCR has to be farther than it needs to be. I can't bring LCR and the screen closer to MLP, the viewing distance would be too short. My questions:

  1. Is it a better idea to build 5.1.4 instead?
  2. The side surrounds would be pretty close to MLP (less than 1.5m). Would it be a good idea to buy Klipsch RP-402S for side surrounds? (The rest of my speakers are Klipsch RP series.) RP-402S is neither dipole nor bipole. Klipsch call it WDST. But I never heard one and I don't know how it would function in an Atmos setup. Currently I have a 5.1.2 system in another room. The surrounds (monopole) are 2m away from MLP and I find it quite distracting sometimes.
  3. Would front wides help to fill the gap between the LCR and surrounds?
Opinions would be appreciated.
Thanks!
P.S. The drawing is scaled accurately.
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are you certain about that viewing distance? you can go up to 9 feet for more immersive viewing!

you can achieve 7.1.4 in that room! for the side surrounds i would suggest behind a little like 100 degrees rather than 90. its more enjoyable that way i find.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If it was another type of screen, I'd consider sitting closer. But in my case, according to other people's reports XY Screens Soundmax 4K would show its textures sitting closer than 11 ft.
 

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Your projector will have maybe 150-200 nits if it is an expensive projector. It it isn't expensive, it will have even fewer nits. UHD Movie content is mastered with monitors having 1000 or 4000 nits. A great 85-inch flat screen TV costs maybe $3000 and will produce as much as 3000 nits (Vizio). The additional brightness does not appear on-screen as 100% white. Instead, the additional brightness is used to create colors that cannot be reproduced with less light (like a projector--projectors simply cannot reprodce most of the expanded color space available with UHD/HDR content). This effect is NOT subtle, it is VERY obvious. A bright projector has a markedly smaller color space than a bright flat panel TV. The projector has an optical system that degrades the image, flat panel TVs do not, you see each pixel with PERFECT precision. This makes projection look pretty terrible on UHD sources compared to good flat-screen TVs. As long as you understand that... A 10-foot wide screen in a 10-foot wide room leaves no room for the frame of the projection screen. Be careful with measurement requirements. Be sure you understand the difference between image area and the full dimensions of the screen with the frame included. A room that narrow has serious challenges. Side surround speakers and any other speaker closer than about 6 feet from the/a listener should be dipole speakers so no sound is radiated straight forward from the speaker. That keeps the "close" speakers from being able to overwhelm a close listener. No matter what anybody else says, in your room, the only correct loudspeaker for your side surrounds is dipole speakers.

Dolby's immersive system (Atmos) is the worst of your 3 audio options. DTS:X speaker location recommendations are 50% better than Dolby recommendations. But the absolute best locations for the immersive speakers follow the Auro-3D recommendations where the side surround height speakers are at the ceiling/wall corner, directly above the side-surround speakers. The front height channels should be located directly above the main front left and right speakers, hanging from the ceiling. NEVER use ceiling-mount speakers that aim directly down. Use box speakers (without a port on the back since you might block the port with close-to-wall placement) ALWAYS if it is possible. If you don't want to install speakers permanently on wall brackets, you can hold the speakers to the wall bracket with generic bungee cord (without hooks, tie knots). If your surround processor or AVR does not support Auro-3D, I would dump it immediately and get a new one that DOES support Auro-3D because using Auro-3D on an Atmos or DTS:X soundtrack SOUNDS MUCH BETTER than using Atmos or DTS:X decoding respectively. In fact, without Auro-3D decoding, I wouldn't even BOTHER with immersive sound. Atmos is PATHETIC for sound quality and DTS:X is only a LITTLE better. Auro-3D is WILDLY better sounding even when the soundtrack has no Auro-3D soundtrack. If I did not have Auro-3D decoding in my system, I would feel like having height speakers was a waste of time and money.

Example: In Star Trek: Beyond, there is an attack on the Enterprise with hundreds of 1-man alien ships landing on the Enterprise hull, drilling through the hull to allow the 1 passenger to enter Enterprise fighting. There's weapons fire from every direction, shouting, banging sounds, drilling sounds, all the mayhem you might expect on a starship being over-run, one enemy at a time. But with the standard US soundtrack (I forget whether it is Atmos or DTS:X), the ONLY thing you hear during the ENTIRE battle sequence is the computer saying "Red Alert"... aside from that, the height channels are SILENT during the battle. When you switch to Auro-3D processing, there are ambient sounds in the height channels for 100% of the battle sequence, including the computer announcing "Red Alert" but now adding reflections of the yelling, drilling, weapons fire, etc. In short, Auro-3D decoding sounds better than Atmos or DTS:X decoding, even if Auro-3D is not encoded on the disc. Auro-3D decoding makes EVERTHING sound better. It fact, it is so good, I won't listen to music in stereo any longer. Everything gets played with Auro-3D processing. This is the first time I've ever been able to say that. Dolby Surround (Atmos' decoder for non-Atmos sources) sound ****** in comparison (grey, dull, anti-musical, dry, opaque, lacking dynamics, boring). While Auro-3D processing of stereo music sounds live, vital, musical/tuneful, bright, open, spacious, and smile-inducing. If you don't have Auro-3D decoding/processing in your processor/AVR, I would suggest not even bothering with the height channels, you'll just be disappointed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Your projector will have maybe 150-200 nits if it is an expensive projector. It it isn't expensive, it will have even fewer nits. UHD Movie content is mastered with monitors having 1000 or 4000 nits. A great 85-inch flat screen TV costs maybe $3000 and will produce as much as 3000 nits (Vizio). The additional brightness does not appear on-screen as 100% white. Instead, the additional brightness is used to create colors that cannot be reproduced with less light (like a projector--projectors simply cannot reprodce most of the expanded color space available with UHD/HDR content). This effect is NOT subtle, it is VERY obvious. A bright projector has a markedly smaller color space than a bright flat panel TV. The projector has an optical system that degrades the image, flat panel TVs do not, you see each pixel with PERFECT precision. This makes projection look pretty terrible on UHD sources compared to good flat-screen TVs. As long as you understand that... A 10-foot wide screen in a 10-foot wide room leaves no room for the frame of the projection screen. Be careful with measurement requirements. Be sure you understand the difference between image area and the full dimensions of the screen with the frame included. A room that narrow has serious challenges. Side surround speakers and any other speaker closer than about 6 feet from the/a listener should be dipole speakers so no sound is radiated straight forward from the speaker. That keeps the "close" speakers from being able to overwhelm a close listener. No matter what anybody else says, in your room, the only correct loudspeaker for your side surrounds is dipole speakers.

Dolby's immersive system (Atmos) is the worst of your 3 audio options. DTS:X speaker location recommendations are 50% better than Dolby recommendations. But the absolute best locations for the immersive speakers follow the Auro-3D recommendations where the side surround height speakers are at the ceiling/wall corner, directly above the side-surround speakers. The front height channels should be located directly above the main front left and right speakers, hanging from the ceiling. NEVER use ceiling-mount speakers that aim directly down. Use box speakers (without a port on the back since you might block the port with close-to-wall placement) ALWAYS if it is possible. If you don't want to install speakers permanently on wall brackets, you can hold the speakers to the wall bracket with generic bungee cord (without hooks, tie knots). If your surround processor or AVR does not support Auro-3D, I would dump it immediately and get a new one that DOES support Auro-3D because using Auro-3D on an Atmos or DTS:X soundtrack SOUNDS MUCH BETTER than using Atmos or DTS:X decoding respectively. In fact, without Auro-3D decoding, I wouldn't even BOTHER with immersive sound. Atmos is PATHETIC for sound quality and DTS:X is only a LITTLE better. Auro-3D is WILDLY better sounding even when the soundtrack has no Auro-3D soundtrack. If I did not have Auro-3D decoding in my system, I would feel like having height speakers was a waste of time and money.

Example: In Star Trek: Beyond, there is an attack on the Enterprise with hundreds of 1-man alien ships landing on the Enterprise hull, drilling through the hull to allow the 1 passenger to enter Enterprise fighting. There's weapons fire from every direction, shouting, banging sounds, drilling sounds, all the mayhem you might expect on a starship being over-run, one enemy at a time. But with the standard US soundtrack (I forget whether it is Atmos or DTS:X), the ONLY thing you hear during the ENTIRE battle sequence is the computer saying "Red Alert"... aside from that, the height channels are SILENT during the battle. When you switch to Auro-3D processing, there are ambient sounds in the height channels for 100% of the battle sequence, including the computer announcing "Red Alert" but now adding reflections of the yelling, drilling, weapons fire, etc. In short, Auro-3D decoding sounds better than Atmos or DTS:X decoding, even if Auro-3D is not encoded on the disc. Auro-3D decoding makes EVERTHING sound better. It fact, it is so good, I won't listen to music in stereo any longer. Everything gets played with Auro-3D processing. This is the first time I've ever been able to say that. Dolby Surround (Atmos' decoder for non-Atmos sources) sound ** in comparison (grey, dull, anti-musical, dry, opaque, lacking dynamics, boring). While Auro-3D processing of stereo music sounds live, vital, musical/tuneful, bright, open, spacious, and smile-inducing. If you don't have Auro-3D decoding/processing in your processor/AVR, I would suggest not even bothering with the height channels, you'll just be disappointed.
Thank you for the input. Auro-3D is a much less common format compared to Atmos. I wonder why film industry doesn't support it more if it is that much better than the rest.
 

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Auro-3D is not getting much support in the US because Dolby is trying to "kill" Auro-3D any way they can. Dolby has already made TrueHD/Atmos soundtracks unable to be processed by Auro-3D. Auro-3D sued Dolby and won. So Dolby had to stop "blocking" Auro-3D processing. In Europe, Auro-3D is far more popular and is often a choice for one of the soundtracks on Blu-ray movies. Dolby is also trying to destroy Auro-3D by hiring away key Auro-3D employees. Dolby does their best to keep Auro-3D "unknown" in the US, because it's BETTER at processing ambient sound into the height channels so you DO sound immersed in sonic environments. Movie studios are not paying to put 1 or 2 sound engineers on the job of creating real immersive sound tracks. Instead, they just process the 5.1 or 7.1 soundtrack with Dolby Surround (if it is a DTS:X soundtrack, they process the original track with DTS Neural:X) and they encode that fake immersive soundtrack (that's not immersive at all) with Atmos or DTS:X and we end up with TERRIBLE immersive soundtracks with very little actual sound in the height channels. Auro-3D's processing of the same 5.1 or 7.1 soundtracks places nearly constant immersive ambient sound in the height channels... just as you experience in real life. Auro-3D is so popular in Europe that music discs are being produced with discrete channels and Auro-3D sound--and the sound is better than stereo, by a lot. My entire life (I'm old), I've dreamed of music that sounds better than stereo with more than 2 channels, but everything that has come along has sounded worse than stereo. Until Auro-3D processing... I now listen to stereo music with Auro-3D processing 100% of the time because its the first time I've heard very high fidelity music coming out of 12 channels and it's fantastic.
 
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