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71491 Views 307 Replies 51 Participants Last post by  lcaillo

Video Experts Along with the Attending Audience Will Evaluate the Newest Flagship HD Panels
To Answer The Question: Which Manufacturer Makes the Best Flat Panel HDTV?

Day One, Saturday, May 19, 2012 5:00 PM
Day Two, Sunday, May 20, 2012 1:00 PM

Value Electronics 108 Garth Rd, Scarsdale, NY 10583

Direct 914-723-3344 or 800-789-5050

To attend in person email Robert Zohn:
[email protected] and put in the subject line, Flat Panel Shootout Request

Displays in the evaluation:
Plasma models, Panasonic TC-P65VT50, Samsung PN64E8000, LG 60PM9700 LCD/LED models, Panasonic TC-L55WT50, Samsung UN60ES8000, Elite PRO-60X5FD, LG 60LM9600, and possibly Toshiba's new Cinema 55L7200 and Sony's XBR-65HX929.

Plus one or possibly even two surprise displays!

Seating will be limited and is exclusively available by email request. This is a private event for a/v enthusiast, the press and select invited industry experts and executives. Send your email request now if you are interested in learning about video technology and seeing first hand the world's best displays on one Shootout wall with our panel of distinguished experts doing the live review evaluation! The Flat Panel Shootout will also be available Online on both days. (Saturday & Sunday). The web address and logon info will be posted as soon as they are confirmed.

The Flat Panel Shootout will present this years newest displays from the leading manufacturers. The event will be a completely unbiased assessment of all the panels represented. The displays will be connected to a dedicated 20 amp circuit and a Richard Gray power conditioner. The HDMI cables are all 16' Key Digital Black Bull so all will be on a equal playing field.

Factory reps from Panasonic, Samsung, LG and Sharp's Elite group (and if Toshiba and Sony are included their reps will present their respective products) will present their panels, and make a presentation explaining their features and latest developments. Plus we have some Industry VIPs and some of the most highly respected video development engineers will be attending and presenting on the future of flat panel display technologies.

The Online live feed will be broadcast in HD and will allow viewers to submit questions which will be moderated by our staff a/v techs and select questions will be read out loud for our panel of experts to answer in realtime.

Check back often to this thread for updates.

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Sonnie, thanks for posting this.

phazewolf, stay tuned to this thread. We aim to please. :T

Thanks for bring up the issue and yes I'll check the component video inputs. Our PN51E8000 and PN51E6500 showroom demo display component video inputs work perfectly.

News Flash.....

The very well respected David Mackenzie — Senior Editor & Reviewer for HDTVtest will be participating at our Flat Panel Shootout event. David is from the UK and is flying in just to attend the event.

David is one of the world's top TV reviewers and has helped many of the major display brands evaluate and help resolve bugs. David joins several other industry giants who will be surprise guests at the Flat Panel Shootout event.

I am very pleased to have David at our Shootout.

Don't miss the opportunity to be a part of the world's only Shootout evaluation of the flagship displays from Panasonic. Sharp, Sony, Samsung and LG. Request your seat now by emailing me at [email protected] Please write "Shootout seat request" in the subject line.

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The 7th Annual shootout was October last year - is this becoming a semi-annual shootout Robert? :)
No, we follow the TV manufacturers' model year introduction. Last year we had delays due to the mid-year introduction of the Elite TV and we had a slight further delay due to Kevin's illness.


Does anyone else think it's too bad Runco doesn't get in on this? I've been curious how they compare for a long time and you just don't hear much concrete about them. It would be interesting to get them on the floor as a level set....
I've considered this every year. Here's my reservations. First is that I believe it's a Samsung pdp with Runco chassis and electronics plus the outboard scalier. Second, the market is so very small for a $10k 63" pdp that I feel the even a/v enthusiasts interests is very limited. The Flat Panel Shootout is geared towards enthusiasts and I am attending the Runco dealer meeting next Tuesday morning to discuss this as we are considering putting the Runco 63" pdp in the Shootout.

Stay tuned for one or two surprise displays to be included in the evaluation.


Can you take us through your evaluation method?

Also can you ask each of the reps to clearly explain what exactly their branded features do. That is clear explanations of "live color" "black correction" etc...?
It's best to leave this to Kevin Miller to answer, but the very brief answer is Kevin goes through a series of generated test patterns and examples of actual video content as he explains how to interpret the patterns related to each of the four attributes that contribute to picture quality. The Shootout runs for about 5 hours of mostly video technical teaching and evaluation as we have the attending audience vote on each of the picture quality attributes to determine who make the world's best display.

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Well, to me it's not really a matter of whether or not the average enthusiast could afford to be interested in a Runco. It a question of what we can learn from Runco technology. What deficiencies of the Panasonic/Samsung processing does the Runco expose? What if the vt50 actually has a better picture than the Runco? If we don't compare how can we learn?
I understand and because I feel you have a good point we are carefully considering it. Here's the few things the Runco or any other panel would have to pass and that is.

1. The very excellent scalar that comes with the panel, when properly set-up, gives the Runco a very distinct advantage in the final picture and if you put a quality scalar in front of any of the other panels, the performance would also greatly improve. So in my way of thinking the Runco looses its "potentially better" pq advantage to the scalar and since a scalar is not being used on the other panels, it's simply an unfair test and way too complicated to figure out to everyone's satisfaction than it's actually worth.

2. Now that I brought out the value and how it appeals to the biggest possible "a/v enthusiast" market segment, price points north of $10k have a very limited interest when compared to displays in the $2.5k to 4.5k price range.

Regarding learning something from other suppliers I think the best lesson we would get is that it's smart to consider adding an external video processor in front of your display.


There are wall space limitations as well, which was maxed out last year.
We can actually perfectly fit up to eight 65" flat panels on the Flat Panel Shootout wall and one more up to 80" on the adjacent wall with a very good viewing position to the Shootout wall. At our October 2011 Shootout you might remember I had my personal PRO-141FD behind the western wall mural and that it was in good view of the Shootout wall. This year that location will hide one of our surprise displays!

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Wouldn't that qualification be negligible if the source is a high quality Blu-ray outputting 1080p? The recommendation for calibrated viewing is normally "dot-by-dot" mode so wouldn't that be an apples-to-apples comparison even for the Runco?
No because Runco's outboard video processor is not just a scalar it has gray scale, gamma and other picture adjustments to enhance the image quality.

We're carefully considering it and as I said we have a meeting with Runco this coming Tuesday.

This year's event has developed a ton of interest among trade and consumer publications. We sent our press releases out this morning and Big Picture Big Sound is the first to break the story with feature article on their home page today.

The excitement is building very quickly!

Thanks Riz and Gimp.

I'm considering Panasonic's VX300. It may be in the Flat Panel Shootout.

As you know I LOVE doing this every year and I become more excited with every Shootout. Best of all is enjoying the years of work we do and being an integral part of helping the manufacturers advance the picture quality that we all enjoy so very much.

This year's displays have all improved in the form/fit/design, all image quality attributes are greatly improved as is the Smart Internet application rich interactivity.

Today's very modern displays deliver a stunning picture and is so much fun... it's the new center of very awesome entertainment.

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My first allocation of VT50s are in-route to us!

Just in time to do a proper break-in and pre-Shootout evaluation. :yay2:

Gregr, actually I believe Vizio makes a great TV and the value is excellent. But this Flat Panel HDTV Shootout is strictly limited to the very best flagship models from the premium manufacturers. At this moment I can't tell you the names of the premium TV manufacturers' who did not make the cut and will not even have their premium flagship display included in the Shootout.

At Sears, Walmart and Sam's Club you only see the low end entry level TVs, and some are exclusive to the retailer. Also the TVs in those stores are set to the store demo mode, which is the worst viewing mode. So I think that may be some of the reason you are not seeing as good a picture that you experience in your home with subdued ambient light and a TV that has been properly set-up.

If you put any of these panels on our Shootout wall and it would be embarrassing for the manufacturer.

Sorry no Vizio in this event. But it would be nice to see Vizio beat the pants off of many of the big boys entry to mid level displays.

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mech, thanks for posting this. This great promotion video for our 8th Annual Flat Panel Shootout was created by our Cinematographer, Mr. Joe Soso. Joe has been our Shootout Cinematographer for the past 4 years and much of his fine work with us can be seen on our Youtube HDTV Shootout page.

Hope to meet many HTS colleagues at the Shootout event!

Today we received Panasonic's WT50 series LCD/LED TV and all I can say is this display is simply stunning. My techs wall mounted the WT50 on the Shoot-out wall. This contestant will do well in the Shootout evaluation.

From the gorgeous industrial design and world class fit, finish, and overall build quality to the incredible image quality this new 2012 TV delivers an excellent investment to ensure many years of great visual entertainment.

We just posted a nice photo album on our Facebook page.


Samsung is also showing its OLED in Korea a week earlier, but although I'm still working on an OLED, sadly, I must confess it's unlikely. But, don't fret, cause we'll be hosting our semi-annual Shootout with both OLED's when they launch late summer to very early fall 2012 against the three top rated displays at our May 2012's Flat Panel Shootout.

Barry, tele1962, I'll have the exact direct link next week so stand by for the url. And yes the live HD channel will be moderated by our staff.

Gregr, From what I know OLED was invented in 1982 by Eastman Kodak; at this moment I can't remember the name of the researcher. In 2003 Kodak was also the first to commercially use OLED in a small camera display. Some years later Kodak sold most of the OLED intellectual properties to LG.

I worked in the photographic industry before becoming a TV Broadcast systems engineer, which of course, was before starting ValueElectronics.com some 16 + years ago.

Anyway fast forward a few decades and we have the first CES showing of OLED from LG and Samsung. Both 55" ultra thin models and they do look great. But these were just engineering prototypes. And I'm concerned about the longevity of the Blue OLED and from what I am told OLED panel yields that pass q/c are very low.

We suggest a cautious wait and see approach to all early adapters. BTW, the final list prices will be $6k to $8k and the very first production is expected in September 2012. When the launch we're planning a mid-year Shootout with the top three panels from next weeks 8th annual Flat Panel Shootout Evaluation event.

So stand by for more information on this fast moving target of who makes the "World's Best Display"

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I think August will be the earliest we'll see any OLED in the USA. Hope I'm wrong.

Just noticed you are in NYC, do you plan on attending our Flat Panel HDTV Shootout Evaluation event?

Hi David :wave:

Yes, all of the 2012 LCD/LED and PDPs are out this week so it's time to see what's different between them and which one delivers the very best picture quality.

We're all looking forward to seeing you next week!

Yes, the top three displays from our May 19 - 20 2012 Flat Panel Shootout will face-off against LG's and Samsung's OLEDs and yes likely Elite's new mid-year entry. I suspect it will be September before both models are available. So yes we'll have a second-half 2012 Flat Panel Smack-down final Shootout.

I'll assemble our panel of experts to present the 2012 final comparison evaluation of the year to demonstrate and teach all of the variances between the best 2012 LCD/LEDs and PDPs against the break-through OLED technology.

So stay tuned for our projected September 2012 mother of all Shootouts when we fire up our 20 amp dedicated/power conditioned circuit which will power six of the world's best displays all but-to-butt on our Shootout wall.

Who will take the second-half 2012 VE crown as the "King of HDTV?" .....

In short time we'll know the definitive answer.

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We purchased a full HD bandwidth premium channel from Livestream.com. It's billed by the amount of use so we'll announce the exact url to our premium channel Saturday around 4 PM.

I was just told that one of the true gods of flat panel display will attend on Sunday and make a very special presentation and be available for q/a. Sorry I can't disclose this persons identity until Sunday.

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