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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

A friend of mine recommended I post this question here, as he believes the level of knowledge is a little higher than where I originally had it.

I am looking for a cheaper amp with a similar spec to the Behringer EP2500 and I think I have found one.
The Pyle PZR6XA is available delivered for about half the price of an EP2500. I will try to attach the specs to the next post in this thread.

On the surface it seems fine but why does the 2200W Pyle show a maximum power of 110W at 8 Ohms, while the 2400W Behringer has 450W per channel at 8 Ohms?

Any help on this would be gratefully received as would any other suggestions that could help me save some cash.

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Elite Shackster
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Hi Tyler, I'll try point a couple of the experts here to give you the advice your after. Something worth taking from the specs, the Behringer can bridge into 4 ohms while the other cant. The Behringer is obviously more capable of driving harder loads. I guess you could say the Behringer looks more like a truck while the other more like a car, they may be able to travel the same speed, but the truck has more power to shift heavier loads.

Hopefully, someone will be along shortly to give a proper answer.
 

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HTS Senior Moderator
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Well, there are a couple of things - not the least of which is that the Pyle is simply not as big (power wise) and amp as the Behringer. That's why it's less money. From a top line basis, the Behringer is rated at 450WPC into 8 ohms, 20-20kHz at 0.1% distortion. The smaller Pyle under the same restrictions (20-20kHz, 8 ohms, 0.1% THD) is only rated at 70WPC. So, the Behringer is about 7x as much juice in to a real world (not test bench) situation - but is only double the price. Looking at it another way - If the Behringer is say $400 and the Pyle is say $200, the Behringer is < $1 per clean, usable watt per channel. The Pyle is about $2.50 per clean, usable watt per channel. So, which is a better VALUE? Value vs price are 2 different things - especially if one of the two may not do what's really needed.

The specs you need to look at are power output from 20-20kHz at the rated distortion. The other specs are pretty much meaningless. The 2400W and 2400W don't really tell you anything. You need to compare apples to apples. Since both are only rated the same way in bridged mode at 8 ohms, 1kHz, and 0.1% distortion, compare those 2 and it will tell you how they fare on the same basis. That bottom line is more from the car stereo world. It's a purely maximium power output rating regardless of frequency range and distortion. Really doesn't do much good to buy an amp based on a rating at 1kHz and 50% distortion - unless you want to listen to a 1kHz pure tone, really loud and really distorted :yikes:

The Behringer does seem to be able to put out more juice into lower loads though. That said, Behringer doesn't have all that great a reputation for amp reliability. They're great bang for the buck but they do it my using 'just enough' in terms of parts specs to get the job done. Other amps overrate parts (for instance they'll use 10W resistors when only 5W will be required where Behringer will use 5W to save money. That's fine as long as the tolerances are OK. Most parts like that are 5% or 10% tolerance so one could relatively easily exceed the ratings on the parts. Don't know much about the Pyle.

What will you be using this amp for?

Bryan
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the input.

The amp will be used to power a Sub Moonfly is putting together for me. A sealed 80ltr enclosure with a 15" AE AV15-X driver.
 

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Rated impedance? Sensitivity? Room size?

In general, the smaller amp might do OK in a smaller space and if the driver is 4 ohms with reasonable sensitivity. Sealed enclosure won't be as sensitive in general as a ported one but it also won't potentially unload below the tuning frequency throwing odd impedences at the amp. The Pyle is not rated at 4 ohms in bridged mode so that by itself may be an issue.

Sub amps in general can be expected to put out a TON of power and not over short periods of time but over longer periods. That's another reason why peak power really isn't telling you anything. Remember that every time you want 3db more output, you have to double the power. So, if you have a sub that's say 88db at 1W, it's 91db at 2W, [email protected], [email protected], etc. By the time you get into the mid 100's, you're using a lot of power over a long term basis.

What is the price of the 2 amps? There are some other nice options out there for a sub amp. Would be really nice to have phase adjustment, xover adjustment, separate gains, etc.

Bryan
 

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I'll add that in my opinion Pyle is pure garbage. There was a time a dozen years ago when they made decent pro amps, but what they sell today is only worthy of being used as a door stop. I also do not have very high an opinion of Behringer, but between the two it would be my choice over anything from Pyle.

What's your amplifier budget? You can probably do better than Behringer on the used market...
 

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Elite Shackster
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Cheers bpape.

I do know that the Behringer amps are being used by a lot of DIY sub builders, and Ive yet to hear of anything bad about them. I have heard that better amps are out there, but they almost all offer less power for more money, especially in europe. The limited range of subs seems to work well with the Behringers, and when I had a look inside mine its seems pretty well put together too.

Cheers Dyohn,

I know you dont like Behringers, so thanks for coming and giving a balanced view. The problem we have in the UK though, is that options arent as varied as in the US, and over here Behringer seems to be one of the biggest players. Are there alternatives you know of?
 

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I was thinking more on the line of something like a plate amp that's a mono BY DESIGN, specifically made for subwoofer duties with the right controls on them. They're not terribly expensive.

Check this out

http://www.oaudio.com/500W_SUBAMP.html

Plenty of power, infinitely adjustable phase, adjustable xover, low distortion, 4 ohm rating, parametric EQ built in, etc. 220/240V version available. And this is a better than average one. There are others that are less expensive available.

Bryan
 

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Elite Shackster
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What is the price of the 2 amps? There are some other nice options out there for a sub amp. Would be really nice to have phase adjustment, xover adjustment, separate gains, etc.

Bryan
The driver will be one of these:

http://aespeakers.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=68

There will be gain on the sub amp, and phase can be swapped. After that everything is going to be handled by an AVR, and built in Audyssey. The trouble with the O audio amp is it offers 3db less due to only offering half the power the driver can take, and there isnt room in the budget for an LTC etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Rated impedance? Sensitivity? Room size?
Here's the driver specification:
AV15-X - 4 ohm
Fs: 24Hz
Qms: 4.1
Vas: 197L
Cms: .22mm/N
Mms: 200g
Rms: 7.4kg/s
Xmax: 23mm
Sd: 794sqcm
Qes: .39
Re: 3.2
Le: .196mH
Z: 4ohm
Bl: 15.6Tm
Pe: 1000W
Qts: .36
1W SPL: 90.4dB
2.83V: 94.3dB

The room size is about 22feet x 13feet.

What is the price of the 2 amps?
£200 for The Behringer, £100 for the Pyle.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I was thinking more on the line of something like a plate amp that's a mono BY DESIGN, specifically made for subwoofer duties with the right controls on them. They're not terribly expensive.

Check this out

Plenty of power, infinitely adjustable phase, adjustable xover, low distortion, 4 ohm rating, parametric EQ built in, etc. 220/240V version available. And this is a better than average one. There are others that are less expensive available.

Bryan

How does that plate Amp compare to the Behringer for power?

If I am reading the specs right, it is about a quarter the power. Right?

325W into 8 Ohms vs 1500W into 8 Ohms.
 

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OK. 4 Ohms - not good for the Pyle in bridged mode. Bigger room, tends to need more power - not good for the Pyle. Looks like the Behringer or the OAudio plate amp would be a better fit.

The OAudio is on backorder until mid January but looks like around $280 USD including delivery to the UK which (if my conversion math is right) is actually between the Behringer and the Pyle price wise.

Bryan
 

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How does that plate Amp compare to the Behringer for power?

If I am reading the specs right, it is about a quarter the power. Right?

325W into 8 Ohms vs 1500W into 8 Ohms.
Again, ignore the 1500W. That tells you nothing. Look at continuous power into the load at a rated distortion. The plate is 500W into 4 ohms continuous. The Behringer is 2400W but at a full 1% distortion and at 1kHz. You're using this for a sub so a 1kHz rating is worthless. Notice that Behringer won't rate the amp at 4 ohms bridged and over a full frequency spectrum - only 8 ohms. Tells me the amp isn't as stable at the extremes - where you'll be using it. The BASH amps have a reputation for being pretty bullet-proof too.

Bryan
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for clearing that up. I would much rather the neater option of a plate amp too.

Moonfly - What do you think? Is the O Audio plate Amp a possibility for my sub?

There are others that are less expensive available.
i would interested in hearing about these too :T
 

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There are other plate options too. This one is just kind of at the sweet spot - not being too expensive but still having good specs and features. The continuously variable phase instead of just a 0 or 180 is a very nice thing to have - not to mention the built in parametric EQ.

They also have one that's 300W for even less money but without the parametric EQ but still with the continuously variable phase adjustment.

Bryan
 

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Elite Shackster
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Again, ignore the 1500W. That tells you nothing. Look at continuous power into the load at a rated distortion. The plate is 500W into 4 ohms continuous. The Behringer is 2400W but at a full 1% distortion and at 1kHz. You're using this for a sub so a 1kHz rating is worthless. Notice that Behringer won't rate the amp at 4 ohms bridged and over a full frequency spectrum - only 8 ohms. Tells me the amp isn't as stable at the extremes - where you'll be using it. The BASH amps have a reputation for being pretty bullet-proof too.

Bryan
Interesting :dontknow:

So you reckon the O-audio amp will be as good as the Behringer, despite apparently less power. I was looking at that amp for myself but couldnt due to a dual driver design.
 

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Elite Shackster
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Thanks for clearing that up. I would much rather the neater option of a plate amp too.

Moonfly - What do you think? Is the O Audio plate Amp a possibility for my sub?



i would interested in hearing about these too :T
Its certainly looking that way. Like I say, I was considering on but it couldnt offer enough for my twin driver sub. Another benefit of the O-audio amp is it runs without a fan, so no fan noise. I find my Behringer a bit noisy when watching things at low levels. There is a fan mod I can do for peanuts which I will be doing soon.
 
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