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Elite Shackster
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Thats why Ive handed it over to the experts, I dont fully understand the relation between output watts and consumption watts. :dumbcrazy:

Although I understand the consumption is the truth and can show up manufacturer figure messing.
 

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HTS Senior Moderator
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I'd say from a stability and reliability standpoint, its likely better than the Behringer. Apples to apples, it's really not that much less power. If you ignore the peak power and the 1kHz ratings, they're not that different.

Bryan
 

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Power is not that big a consideration. That subwoofer has 90.4 db sensitivity which is quite high for a sub. In theory it will produce reference levels of 105db with about 30 watts input, so it should produce more than usable amounts of output with a 100 or 200 watt amplifier. I'd look for something with a clean usable output in the 250 watt range.

Plate amps tend to provide the best bang for the buck, especially since most of them that are designed as subwoofer amps offer things like phase control and crossover settings and in some cases subsonic filters, all of which are very useful for integrating a sub into a room and none of which are included in most pro-amps.

The reason I don't like Behringer is they are pretty cheaply constructed, the fans are way too loud (unless you remove and replace them with something else) their power ratings tend to be over-stated and I had two of them fail on me for no apparent reason. YMMV.
 

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I'll have to recant on the 420W. Not sure where I got that from. The Berhinger full range, continuous, into 8 ohms is the spec that's the best to use. That's 1300W. The question becomes what will it do into 4 ohms continuous and at what distortion rating? Don't know since they don't specify. They specifically do not specify anything full range or continuous at 4 ohms when bridged mono.

I'm not saying the Behringer won't work and might not have a bit more juice - but there's no way to know other than putting it on a bench and measuring it. My suspicion is that if they actually did that and it performed well, they would have specified it.

I don't want to turn this in to a Behringer bashing party. Not meant that way at all. Their EQ products are some of the highest value components out there. Amplifiers just don't tolerate maxing out parts specs as well as other things. When you start to push them hard into low impedences, things get stressed. When everything is built just good enough, stress can push you over the edge and cause failures.

Bryan
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Bryan, thanks very much for your help so far.

Would it be possible for you to pull the relevant figures for each of these amps from their spec sheets. I am having a hell of a job knowing what's important and what should be discarded.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I'd look for something with a clean usable output in the 250 watt range.

Plate amps tend to provide the best bang for the buck,.
Interesting statement about the best bang for buck, as this is key for me just after Christmas!

Would you care to recommend any for my sub?
 

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It's going to be difficult as the plate amp is only rated at 4 ohms. The Behringer insn't in mono mode so very difficult to do apples to apples.

I also am not seeing the power requirement specs for the Behringer (power in vs power out). Am I missing something there.

Another thing I'm not seeing as good a damping factor which is critical for subwoofer applications. Damping factor is the ability of the amp to control the woofer and not allow the circuit to work 'in reverse' and have the sub motion continue and drive current/voltage back into the amplifier. 300 isn't bad by any stretch though on the Behringer.

Bryan
 

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In my testing of a Behringer EP2500 it exceeded its listed distortion specs at about 340 watts output (full spectrum into a 4-ohm resistive load) and could not get to rated power. It began clipping hard at about 800 watts output and was producing nearly 20% THD. But that was only one sample, and I have read similar tests with much better results done by other people. Thus another of my gripes about cheap products like Behringer: they vary greatly from unit to unit and you might get a good one or you might not. :)
 

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Elite Shackster
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I'll have to recant on the 420W. Not sure where I got that from. The Berhinger full range, continuous, into 8 ohms is the spec that's the best to use. That's 1300W. The question becomes what will it do into 4 ohms continuous and at what distortion rating? Don't know since they don't specify. They specifically do not specify anything full range or continuous at 4 ohms when bridged mono.

I'm not saying the Behringer won't work and might not have a bit more juice - but there's no way to know other than putting it on a bench and measuring it. My suspicion is that if they actually did that and it performed well, they would have specified it.

I don't want to turn this in to a Behringer bashing party. Not meant that way at all. Their EQ products are some of the highest value components out there. Amplifiers just don't tolerate maxing out parts specs as well as other things. When you start to push them hard into low impedences, things get stressed. When everything is built just good enough, stress can push you over the edge and cause failures.

Bryan
I have a question for you then? I'm using the EP4000, and driving 2 of these drivers in a single (push/pull) sub. When I selected the amp, did so partly because of the power requirements I had, and it matched them, but also of the advice of others. The plate amps cant match the EP4000, but I stand to be corrected.

Where do you stand on that one.

FYI, on the merit of Dyohn's comments, I'm currently talking to Face Audio to see if they can deliver me something even better.

Comments and input appreciated. I'm pretty good on subs, but the finer details of amplification arent as sharp and I'd like to improve in that area.
 

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The plate amp definitely will not have more power than the Behringer EP2500 in bridged mono or even stereo - not even close. I'm amazed nobody else has chimed in on this thread yet, as there are countless EP2500 owners, and this amp has gone through some rigorous testing - check here for actual numbers of the O Audio and Behringer.

To sum it up for you, the O Audio can barely pump out 460 watts into a 4 ohm load whereas the Behringer can produce nearly 2000 watts with a fraction of the distortion of the O Audio in bridged 4 ohm mode, and about 633 watts x 2 into 4 ohm stereo.

Get the Behringer. Until something else comes along - which we will all jump on and make it well known - it's the best bang for the buck for DIY subwoofer usage.
 

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Elite Shackster
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The plate amp definitely will not have more power than the Behringer EP2500 in bridged mono or even stereo - not even close. I'm amazed nobody else has chimed in on this thread yet, as there are countless EP2500 owners, and this amp has gone through some rigorous testing - check here for actual numbers of the O Audio and Behringer.

To sum it up for you, the O Audio can barely pump out 460 watts into a 4 ohm load whereas the Behringer can produce nearly 2000 watts with a fraction of the distortion of the O Audio.

Get the Behringer. Until something else comes along - which we will all jump on and make it well known - it's the best bang for the buck for DIY subwoofer usage.
This is the kind of advice that lead me to the Behringers.
 

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Interesting statement about the best bang for buck, as this is key for me just after Christmas!

Would you care to recommend any for my sub?
I don't know what's easily accessable in the UK.... got a link to a web site you prefer to order from?
 

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Discussion Starter #35
It's all very confusing with all the conflicting reports, but these test results should help clear it up although I have to say they don't make much sense to me.





What are your thought Bryan? Still recommend the O-Audio?
 

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Steve has done a lot of research. I tend to believe what he says if HE personally tested it. The test pages you show aren't the same at all. They only tested the plate amp at 80Hz? Nothing in the 20 and 50Hz columns? No 50Hz for the Behringer?

Fact of the matter is that I still believe the OAudio will be more reliable, have more features applicable to subwoofer use, and be less expensive than the Behringer. If the Behringer would really do 2000W BRIDGED into 4 ohms at 0.1% across full spectrum (not just 1kHz), why wouldn't they publish that spec? Makes no sense to me. Also, look at the high frequency power rating for the Behringer. Only 450 WPC? Amp tends to go into oscillation at high frequencies when approaching the rated power? Parts starting to saturate? Not that it matters for sub use but just an indicator of overall design.

Something else doesn't quite line up. OAudio specs 105db S/N if I remember correctly. 89.5db measured tells me that either something was amiss with that amp or with the setup used to measure. A few db is one thing - 16db variance is quite something different.

ONLY 460 Watts? With a 90db efficient sub, that's more than enough.

Bryan

P.S. Time to go into football sloth mode for the day ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Enjoy! and again thanks for your input.

I really would like a plate amp that can power my sub and have plenty of head room, and the O Audio may be that amp.

Does anyone else have anything to say on this plate amp or any others in comparison to the PA amps?
 

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bpape said:
I tend to believe what he says if HE personally tested it
No, I did not personally test it.

They only tested the plate amp at 80Hz? Nothing in the 20 and 50Hz columns? No 50Hz for the Behringer?
The plate amp is meant for subwoofers, so he chose a frequency within the intended range. Why he didn't test lower I'm noty sure, but I doubt any major fluctuations. The Behringer is intended to be a 20-20khz amplifier, so he tested it - along with all the other standard amps - with a standard set of measurements, checking at 20hz, 1000hz, and 20khz. He kept tripping the circuit breaker with a 20hz test on the Behringer, so he couldn't get a good read on how much sustained power it could actually deliver, as he lets a sine wave run for a few minutes before recording the values (nuts in my opinion!). Any more detailed questions than that would have to be addressed to Chuck himself.

Worst case scenario, we can say power drops to maybe 1600 watts at 20hz in bridged 4 ohm.


460 watts isn't bad, but for a little bit more money, you have a much more flexible amplifier that can be used to power two such subs if you ever got the urge. If you ever get rid of the sub, you still have a usable amplifier. With the plate amp, it can really only be used for a subwoofer.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Thanks for that.

I am guessing there are no plate amplifiers that can match the output of the Behringer.

Given the spec of the driver is there any need for such a high output to fully utilise it, or would the O Audio amp be more than enough?

That subwoofer has 90.4 db sensitivity which is quite high for a sub. In theory it will produce reference levels of 105db with about 30 watts input,
Is this statement really the case!?
 
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