[olddog]

Hello good folks. I am new here and new at this. I and my Son were hoping to start out with a simple mod (it's how I taught myself with cars) and progress from there. Your knowledge and help is appreciated. We have been doing our homework (here and a jillion other links:dizzy and this is what we propose.
I have a set of Wharfdale Floor stand Zaldek 2000. specs will follow. They have a front loaded horn (top) and a front loaded mid (just below) drivers. These are open with a .75" horizontal baffle brace just below with a 5"x9" cutout. Then we have dual 6.5” polycarbonate laminate bass drivers with a 2.5" forward port at bottom.
We are thinking to close off the upper drivers.
Put a brace baffle between the dual 6.5” polycarbonate laminate bass drivers.
Upgrade the crossover by just replacing components with high quality.
The only acoustic material is one loose sheet of spun (nylon?) in back so coat the entire inside with Dynomat and apply more acoustic to all sides to make the box dead.
What do you think? All suggestions welcome, thanks.

Speakers Wharfdale Zaldek S2000 with center and surrounds
High-output center channel loudspeaker
Dual 6.5” polycarbonate laminate bass drivers
Horn midrange and horn tweeter
Wired internally with premium Monster XP speaker cable
Heavy-duty MDF cabinet construction
Recommended amplifier power 20W-150W
Nominal impedance 6 ohm (suitable for 8 ohm amplifier)
Sensitivity (for 2.83v at 1m) 90dB
Frequency range at -6dB: 75Hz to 29kHz
Crossover frequencies at 2kHz and 7kHz
Dimensions (H x W x D): 8.5” x 24” x 10

 

[Blaser]

Hey!

What would be the benefit from such a modification? Would it really make a big difference? I have the Diamond 9.6 fronts and enjoy them. They wharfedale speakers are good quality in general...

If I correctly understand what you mean, closing off the upper drivers would reduce the woofers enclosure volume. That would shift the tuning and bass response. I am not sure you want that unless you really know what you'll be doing, I'm also not sure if I correctly understood that what you wanna do :scratch:

 

[olddog]

Good thought Blaser. I was thinking of that last night. You've got the concept right tho. I don't know if your familer with this model, but they advertised it as there "Club Speakers" they are boomers for sure and they were not very expensive for Wharfdales. I was surprised to find no acustical treatment except the one loose sheet in the back. The speakers look to be first rate and the crossover was built out of mid-grade parts I believe. They had to cut cost somewhere(cabnit for one). My thoughts were to merely up-grade some of the things they cut corners on to help them "Be all they can be":bigsmile:.
Thanks for your input it is appreciated.
I will be running them soon with a Denon 2809.

 

[Blaser]

Thanks Sir.

I have seen and heard these speakers in a showroom when I bought mine. They might not be the best of Wharfedale's but they're not bad either.

I am not saying you can't upgrade them, I am saying if it isn't done in a calculated fashion, the results won't be expected (either good or bad). By the way, lowering the dedicated volume to the woofers might make them become boomier...

 

[olddog]

Well I wanted them to be a little more defining not more boomer:dizzy: I guess I just want to tame them a little for low volume playing. What would acustic lining on the inside walls do? Not stuffed!

 

[Blaser]

Have you tried to equalize them? Did you make a FR measurment to begin with?

 

[olddog]

No Blaser I do not have a FR meter. Ask me to build a cabinet (as I have been doing custom kitchen and home ones for 30 years) and I have the tools, but beyond a good solider gun and a good volt-ohm meter nada really.

I would really like to clear up the midranges. I was hoping to help my fairly colored loudspeakers find a much more "neutral" playing field. As access is not to hard I think I will try to place some acoustic sheets on the interior surfaces and see if the sound is better or not. I can always reverse the process. I am still wondering what it could hurt to do a R&R exact just higher grade Caps and Parts on the crossover or just maybe do a copy-cat build of one that I could play with and tweak on a hobby board? I had thoughts to copy the measurements and build some new cabinets for the speakers out of MDF and some nice wood overlay, something first class so the Mrs. wouldn’t think them ugly. These are just black veneer over MDF.
Thanks for the advice on the FR meter. I will go to RS and see if I can pick one up, as other than my old ears I do need a base line for reference.
I'm just an old hot rod hands on kinda guy, but I am old enough to know there is a right way and a wrong way to go at somethin:scratchhead:g.

 

[WmAx]

I highly doubt this speaker is worth the trouble of any extensive mods.

But, if you do mod, I'll save you some trouble....

Don't bother with wiring or components. These make no difference unless they are defective/malfunctioning in the first place. There is no credible excuse via correlated perceptual research to affected measured behavioiur, or any valid blinded real world tests that show difference.

Adding in some more and effective acoustic dampening material may have some effect in helping clear up some lower midrange definition. The Dynamat will help, but not all that much, being it will be a single normal application. If you could constrain the dynamat between the original wall and a 2nd stiff wall, then it would be extremely high efficiency in effect, but it would be difficult to get another wall in the existing caibnet, of course. You can add some bracing, but you will have to add a rather large degree of bracing to have a substantial result.

Your best bet is to replace the speakers IMO. Discuss some price ranges and also specify if you are willing to work with any DIY or kits.

-Chris

 

[olddog]

I highly doubt this speaker is worth the trouble of any extensive mods.

But, if you do mod, I'll save you some trouble....

Don't bother with wiring or components. These make no difference unless they are defective/malfunctioning in the first place. There is no credible excuse via correlated perceptual research to affected measured behavioiur, or any valid blinded real world tests that show difference.

Adding in some more and effective acoustic dampening material may have some effect in helping clear up some lower midrange definition. The Dynamat will help, but not all that much, being it will be a single normal application. If you could constrain the dynamat between the original wall and a 2nd stiff wall, then it would be extremely high efficiency in effect, but it would be difficult to get another wall in the existing caibnet, of course. You can add some bracing, but you will have to add a rather large degree of bracing to have a substantial result.

Your best bet is to replace the speakers IMO. Discuss some price ranges and also specify if you are willing to work with any DIY or kits.

-Chris

Kits would be fun for me and the boy I would think Chris. I was just trying to get my feet wet a little first but maybe it would be better time and money spent to just dig in. Budget wise I think 1500.00 to 2000.00 for fronts and center (components I'll do the enclosures). I like clean (lets hear the snare brush) and full but not too bright 9I loved the sound of a pair of B&W 683s a friend has but he is driving them with some mucho expensive McIntosh amps. I have a Mirage 100watt sub already. I will be driving them with a Denon 2809 AVR. Your thoughts are appreciated Chris.
Thanks again for your thoughtfull time and knowledge.

 

[WmAx]

Kits would be fun for me and the boy I would think Chris. I was just trying to get my feet wet a little first but maybe it would be better time and money spent to just dig in. Budget wise I think 1500.00 to 2000.00 for fronts and center (components I'll do the enclosures). I like clean (lets hear the snare brush) and full but not too bright 9I loved the sound of a pair of B&W 683s a friend has but he is driving them with some mucho expensive McIntosh amps. I have a Mirage 100watt sub already. I will be driving them with a Denon 2809 AVR. Your thoughts are appreciated Chris.
Thanks again for your thoughtfull time and knowledge.

Before I ever make any kind of suggestion(s), I want you to know my background and how I make recommendations: I am strictly into the perceptual research angle of design. I, unlike the vast majority, base nearly every design suggestion on how it relates to human hearing and measured behavior; the correlation of such as shown by the scientific texts. I take it very seriously and I don't offer my advice as loose suggestions or based heavily upon speculation(s) or heavily upon personal preference(s). And again, when I refer to measured behavior(s), it's not necessarily what has the best measurement in any absolute sense, but what had the best combination of measurements in regards to human hearing/perception for the specific intended application(s). These are two different things much of the time. I will also refer you to a few scientific journal papers/articles(not the same as a website with a loose article written by some so-called DIY 'guru'). In fact, I would prefer, PM would be best for communication at first here.

-Chris

 

[Blaser]

I would like to stay in the context of the thread and your concerns....

No Blaser I do not have a FR meter. Ask me to build a cabinet (as I have been doing custom kitchen and home ones for 30 years) and I have the tools, but beyond a good solider gun and a good volt-ohm meter nada really.

Well, it's maybe time to get one and enter the wonderful REW world.... You'll get a precise visual analysis of what you hear.

I would really like to clear up the midranges. I was hoping to help my fairly colored loudspeakers find a much more "neutral" playing field. As access is not to hard I think I will try to place some acoustic sheets on the interior surfaces and see if the sound is better or not. I can always reverse the process.

Yeah I see, it seems you really are decided to do it, and since the process is reversible, just go for it.

I had thoughts to copy the measurements and build some new cabinets for the speakers out of MDF and some nice wood overlay, something first class so the Mrs. wouldn’t think them ugly. These are just black veneer over MDF.

I will be waiting for you in the subwoofer DIY forums... You'll be very happy there

Thanks for the advice on the FR meter. I will go to RS and see if I can pick one up, as other than my old ears I do need a base line for reference.
I'm just an old hot rod hands on kinda guy, but I am old enough to know there is a right way and a wrong way to go at somethin:scratchhead:g.

You will certainly not regret

 

[Mike P.]

I agree that a kit sounds like the way to go. Building a proven design takes all the guess work out of it. It would make an excellent father / son project.

 

[fbov]

Hello good folks. I am new here and new at this. I and my Son were hoping to start out with a simple mod (it's how I taught myself with cars) and progress from there. ...

If I may summarize, your Wharfdales may be fine speakers, but this side of a little tweaking, perhaps with interior treatments, there's not going to be a big, near-term improvement unless something's currently broken.

You can get a big improvement by building a "proven design." I won't call it a kit since you may have to hunt down parts yourself, but it's a proven recipe that has worked out well for others. Key design parameters include the drivers, crossover parts and driver mounting geometry. Some also include enclosure designs, ports, etc., and others are truly kits - all parts including boxes. Parts Express and HT Guide are two good sources.

I'm building an MTM known as the Natalie P, designed by Jon Marsh, I believe. I'm at ~$700 in parts from PE and perhaps another $100-200 in enclosure materials for an L-C-R set, two ported towers and a built-in sealed CC. That's well within your budget, in fact, you could probably swing a 3-way or add a large subwoofer (OK, I should add another $400 for a 15" sub and 500W plate amp.)

The point is that basic woodworking skills will leave you with a speaker set that fits your decor, and sounds better when played louder than what you have today. If you get really hooked, you'll want a calibrated microphone and PC software to measure drivers and design XOs. At that point, you'll have the tool to tackle the Wharfdales properly to see if they have untapped potential.

Or, you can play with the Wharfdales by ear; that could be fun, too.

HAve fun,
Frank

PS The Radio Shack SPL meter calibration is poor above 200 Hz, so it's only really good for subwoofer optimization. Check the REW thread here for recommendations.

 

[olddog]

Thanks FBOV and everyone else. I realy do appreciate your input and Those Natalie P's (I saw the pics) realy do look fine. Bending wood to a specific matched design is to some a lost art.:T

 

[JCD]

I'm with most of the folks.. for a good project like this, I'd go ahead and build a kit. There are a LOT of them out there. I'd take a look at the designs at Madisound.com, zalytron.com and Zaphaudio.com. I'm sure you find something in there that fits in your budget and would have a good to great end product.

 

[delphiplasma]

As the others have said, a project would be best.

However, if you are determined to keep the Wharfedales, then, yes, upgrade crossover components, improve acoustic dampening, get more cabinet bracing, improve internal wiring. If you do go down that path, don't go too silly with buying too high end components. This may then get you both in the mood for building a speaker from scratch, realising what can be done for such little pennies.

Those small cheap upgrades should improve the sound quality.

 

[olddog]

O-K Friends. I am sorry to take sooooo-long to get back but Holidays and all:coocoo:We upgraded the Wharfdales and lined the walls with fiberglass. It made a very nice adjustment to the sound. To my ears not so harsh and a little tighter on the mid. Now on to bigger and better. We are ready to start a project to go with our new Denon 2808CI amp and do it justice. Any suggestions on a 3 way set of towers kit or plans? Or maybe we should just start with the center?
Thanks again to all and we hope you had a safe and good holiday with family and friends.

 

[delphiplasma]

O-K Friends. I am sorry to take sooooo-long to get back but Holidays and all:coocoo:We upgraded the Wharfdales and lined the walls with fiberglass. It made a very nice adjustment to the sound. To my ears not so harsh and a little tighter on the mid. Now on to bigger and better. We are ready to start a project to go with our new Denon 2808CI amp and do it justice. Any suggestions on a 3 way set of towers kit or plans? Or maybe we should just start with the center?
Thanks again to all and we hope you had a safe and good holiday with family and friends.

Happy New Year! Wish I could have had a holiday for that length of time!
Glad you managed to see the benefits of what can be done to improve upon a standard manufactured loudspeaker. This should have helped give you and your son a basic understanding of loudspeaker principles.
With regards your project, it's much more of a personal thing, which requires a lot of research (A lot of reading, software and hardware). That is the fun part. Asking for suggestions really spoils the fun part and takes away the full understanding of the complexities that are required to make a good speaker.
Before starting your project, do some research. You need to be asking yourself
What will it be used for?
What size room?
...etc
All the best