Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

21 - 40 of 51 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,288 Posts
242's won't get down to 80 and doubt that the problems down there are front wall anyway. If you can move the speakers closer or farther from the wall to see what issues are coming from that, we can give a better recommendation on what would work. Could also be the ceiling if a peak or cancellation off the wall behind you if a null.
 

·
HTS Reviewer
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Thanks as always for the quick and helpful response last week Bryan. I had a chance tonight to do some more measuring. I have moved my Paradigms back into place as my review of the Chane speakers is finished (although I still temporarily have the subs hooked up and one PEQ filter to tame a peak around 70Hz). I played around a bit with the placement of the front right speaker and did some full range sweeps of the right channel plus subs. Turns out moving the front speaker out into the room (while maintaining same distance from the side wall) makes a drastic difference in the response between 100Hz and 400Hz - i.e. my problem area. So I guess this is good news in the sense that it should help narrow down the issue, but not great news in the sense that it's not practical to leave the front speakers in the position that gave the best response.

Here are the measurements. Distances are from front wall to roughly front panel of the speaker. In all cases the speaker is 1/4 of the room width from the side wall.

24" from front wall (most convenient location, worst response)


31" from front wall (not great placement, better response)


42" from front wall (worst location, best response :rolleyesno:)


Combined (including 47.5" from wall which was no better than 42")


Waterfall for the 42" location


Does this confirm that the front wall needs to be treated with something pretty thick? I would like to achieve the response of the third graph at the speaker location of the first graph, if possible.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,817 Posts
Question: When you are measuring from the back wall... Is it to the front of the speaker or the rear? My speakers are currently 2' from the rear of the speaker but will be within inches when i move the screen back. If I measure from the front of the speaker I am 6' from the wall, and later will be 4' from the back wall.
 

·
HTS Reviewer
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Question: When you are measuring from the back wall... Is it to the front of the speaker or the rear? My speakers are currently 2' from the rear of the speaker but will be within inches when i move the screen back. If I measure from the front of the speaker I am 6' from the wall, and later will be 4' from the back wall.
Ron - all of my measurements are from the front wall to the front of the speaker, so as you said the gap between the front wall and back of my speaker would be smaller by 18" or so. Unfortunately my room arrangement makes it extremely impractical to put them 3'-4' out into the room where the response is clearly much better.

The actual distances in this case are mostly arbitrary, and the purpose of the experiment was to determine if the speaker's proximity to the front wall was affecting it's response from 100Hz-400Hz. Once I've added appropriate treatments I'll still tweak the final position of the speakers to balance good response and aesthetics/convenience.

edit: my goal here is not only to have good response from my mains and subs, but to also end up with a room that is much less sensitive to placement of mains and subs.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,817 Posts
Ron - all of my measurements are from the front wall to the front of the speaker, so as you said the gap between the front wall and back of my speaker would be smaller by 18" or so. Unfortunately my room arrangement makes it extremely impractical to put them 3'-4' out into the room where the response is clearly much better.

The actual distances in this case are mostly arbitrary, and the purpose of the experiment was to determine if the speaker's proximity to the front wall was affecting it's response from 100Hz-400Hz. Once I've added appropriate treatments I'll still tweak the final position of the speakers to balance good response and aesthetics/convenience.

edit: my goal here is not only to have good response from my mains and subs, but to also end up with a room that is much less sensitive to placement of mains and subs.
Thanks for the info Peter... I am assuming your speakers are maybe a foot or so deep? What would happen if you made a acoustic baffle wall sealing off the speakers from the rear wall, but at the same time you would have a cavity for the return waves to be absorbed? You could then wrap the baffle wall with GOM (if you don't have a AT screen)... I am thinking that it might work nicely as a bass trap too. :T
 

·
HTS Reviewer
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Thanks for the info Peter... I am assuming your speakers are maybe a foot or so deep? What would happen if you made a acoustic baffle wall sealing off the speakers from the rear wall, but at the same time you would have a cavity for the return waves to be absorbed? You could then wrap the baffle wall with GOM (if you don't have a AT screen)... I am thinking that it might work nicely as a bass trap too. :T
They are 17"-18" deep. The baffle wall could potentially help. I'm not using a projector and my front wall has doors on either side, just outside my mains. Since the TV and door locations plus room layout don't give me a lot of freedom to move the speakers around, I'm hoping I can do something with the room itself to cut back on its effects on the mains' response. If I had the front corners free (no doors) I'd stack some corner traps there. In hindsight flipping the room 180º might have been a better option, but I'd have had to hang the TV over a window and run a lot more wiring to the opposite side of the room. I might still do that someday.

Here is a current pic of my front wall to give you an idea.


Door locations for reference. Mains are hard to see but are positioned between display and doors.


I would eventually like to do a PJ and AT screen with mains and CC behind. I could fit about 120"-130" (don't remember what I calculated) diagonal screen in the space between the doors. I would bump the whole curtain/false wall out into the room deep enough to fit the mains and CC behind the screen and front sub behind the curtain below the screen. I could then very easily acoustically treat that whole front wall and maybe even do some kind of baffle as you suggested.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,288 Posts
42" is most definitely the best response and not at all too far forward from a performance and depth of imaging standpoint. Why is this not practical?

Try moving them back to the moderate position and playing with the distance to the side wall and see if you can balance it out between the 2.
 

·
HTS Reviewer
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
Discussion Starter · #29 ·
42" is most definitely the best response and not at all too far forward from a performance and depth of imaging standpoint. Why is this not practical? Try moving them back to the moderate position and playing with the distance to the side wall and see if you can balance it out between the 2.
The 42" position puts the left speaker directly in the path of anyone coming into or out of the room. It wouldn't be catastrophic, just not convenient. I guess I could stick them there for a couple weeks and see if I can tolerate it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
324 Posts
So how is it going with the speaker placement issue's you have been dealing with? Have you thought about going 30" from the wall and placing a monster trap behind them? Maybe try a 242 and a 244 behind each main andifference see how it sounds.

Just a thought.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,167 Posts
Now you got me thinking about tweaking my speaker placement Peter :nono:
I have restricted speaker place options also. My front wall is 10' from my seat. If I moved the speaker further into the room, away from the front wall, I worry when I recline the speaker may become a footrest.
:yikes:
 

·
HTS Reviewer
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
Discussion Starter · #32 ·
So how is it going with the speaker placement issue's you have been dealing with? Have you thought about going 30" from the wall and placing a monster trap behind them? Maybe try a 242 and a 244 behind each main andifference see how it sounds. Just a thought.
Since my last post here I have made a couple changes. The Chane subs are gone so I'm running my Studio 100s full range until my new subs arrive in a few days. I also have a Yamaha RX-A3040 in the system for review. My mains are currently spaced out 33 inches (front of speaker to front wall). I have not done any REW sweeps of this setup but for music it is sounding as good as I've ever heard it sound. I don't know if it's a matter of finding a sweet spot for the speakers or if the Yamaha is just a much better match for them. I mean, I'm really pleased with the sound as it is right now. I am still planning to put some panels behind the mains and possibly some corner traps in the back of the room. I'd still like to get the room to a point where acoustics are less affected by speaker placement. I have six 2" thick OC panels that I will probably use to make some panels for the front wall.


Now you got me thinking about tweaking my speaker placement Peter :nono: I have restricted speaker place options also. My front wall is 10' from my seat. If I moved the speaker further into the room, away from the front wall, I worry when I recline the speaker may become a footrest. :yikes:
Your situation is somewhat similar to mine, but it sounds like I have a bit more room up front. I can live with the mains out into the room a bit, it's just a matter of having to walk around one when coming into the room. If it sounds this good though that is a small price to pay. If I can get good results with panels on the front wall and move the mains back a bit, I'll be a happy camper. I'm going to leave things as they are until my subs are set up. I'll play with crossover settings to see what I come up with and go from there.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,817 Posts
Since my last post here I have made a couple changes. The Chane subs are gone so I'm running my Studio 100s full range until my new subs arrive in a few days. I also have a Yamaha RX-A3040 in the system for review. My mains are currently spaced out 33 inches (front of speaker to front wall). I have not done any REW sweeps of this setup but for music it is sounding as good as I've ever heard it sound. I don't know if it's a matter of finding a sweet spot for the speakers or if the Yamaha is just a much better match for them. I mean, I'm really pleased with the sound as it is right now. I am still planning to put some panels behind the mains and possibly some corner traps in the back of the room. I'd still like to get the room to a point where acoustics are less affected by speaker placement. I have six 2" thick OC panels that I will probably use to make some panels for the front wall.


Your situation is somewhat similar to mine, but it sounds like I have a bit more room up front. I can live with the mains out into the room a bit, it's just a matter of having to walk around one when coming into the room. If it sounds this good though that is a small price to pay. If I can get good results with panels on the front wall and move the mains back a bit, I'll be a happy camper. I'm going to leave things as they are until my subs are set up. I'll play with crossover settings to see what I come up with and go from there.
Would treating the wall behind the speakers alleviate having to bring the speakers out into the room?
 

·
HTS Reviewer
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Would treating the wall behind the speakers alleviate having to bring the speakers out into the room?
Potentially yes. In my case I think reflections off the front wall are causing some cancellation in the 100Hz-400Hz range at the MLP. Some bass trapping on the front wall should improve that in theory.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
910 Posts
I treated my front wall without moving speakers out in the room & noticed big improvement in the low to mid range frequencies
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
910 Posts
I treated the entire front wall with 2 inch linacoustic 1st & then installed corner front bass traps. Big improvement. I have a false wall with acoustic screen so the installation is behind acoustic screen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
910 Posts
My back of the mains are 12 inch from back wall.
 

·
HTS Reviewer
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
Discussion Starter · #39 ·
My current display is a 60" plasma, so I could do a partial false wall, which Ron suggested earlier in this thread. I have some ideas for that option which I may explore down the road. It would allow me to easily treat the whole front wall and bring the TV out into alignment with the front of the speakers. Eventually I would like to go to a projector setup, but probably not until 4k prices come way down. I will probably order some DIY frames soon for the OC boards I have left, and at least mount a panel behind each speaker and see where that gets me.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,817 Posts
I am looking at treating the whole wall behind the screen with either 1 layer of 3" Roxul R60 or 1 layer of 9" Fiberglass insulation (fluffy). :T
 
21 - 40 of 51 Posts
Top