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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello everyone, and thanks in advance for your help.

About 6 months ago, I bought an Acoustic Elegance AV-15H speaker to use in my home theater. I ran it in a sealed 4 foot enclosure, thinking that it would never hit xmax at my power levels, but I was wrong. I also thought that I'd be happy with the ouput, and I was not. I wondered if the speaker was deffective, but that's a whole different issue.

My point is that I'm looking everywhere for a good replacement. One of the things important to me that led me to the AV15-h was it was good for smaller enclosures. I've looked at the list of all of the subs used in projects here, and visited the manufacturers websites, but simply cannot find a good replacement.

So here's where I stand today.

  • I have a Behringer ep4000 amplifer to power the sub.
  • I'm willing to make another enclosure to fit the new driver.
  • I am limited to an "end table" size (as defined by my wife). I estimate I'll have 5 to 7 cubic feet to play with.
  • I want to vent it to get as low as possible (my left and right speakers each have built in 8" subs that give me a great response down to 40hz and taper off into the 30's)
  • I'd prefer a 15 inch driver
  • If I can find something that would work well and didn't break the bank, my wife might let me make a second subwoofer "end table!"

Price is a concern - I wouldn't mind 250 to 350. If it were truly justified, I suppose I could put in more.

So I was leaning toward the Dayton Titanic, but couldn't get it to perform in anything less than 9 to 12 cubic feet. The AE sub that I have models pretty good in a 6ish cubic foot box tuned to 20hz, but it doesn't work in practice. I was impressed by the SoundSplinter drivers, but vented box sizes are just too big, although the RLS15 says it could work from 5 to 9.5, I don't want to spend that much on a driver and put it in a sub-par enclosure (it also seems a bit overpowered for my amp).

Lastly, after my experience with the AE speaker, I'd like to get something that is "tried and true" for home theater sub use.

Thanks for reading this, and I appreciate any feedback.
 

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Welcome to the Shack Joe!

It is hard to have everything unless you wanna pay a fortune. IMO, the best (most economical with excellent SQ solution) out of a driver for HT use is definitly LLT which needs a large box, or a smaller driver and you still fall victime of the limitations of the driver size.
I would try discussing this with the wife and ask her to accept something big but that might be beautiful if carefully designed and built. Otherwise you may want something like the LMS 5400 which is higher than 1 K$ (if you can find one).
Keep looking but you'll have to take hard decision :T
Rgds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the thought. I'll look into it, but If I can stick with the size and budget requirements, I'll be able to make a second one. This sub seems too big and pricey to add a second one later on.
 

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Hi Mike! I was about to suggest that as well, but I am under the impression the OP need a lot more output ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It works fine when I pump less than 300 watts in it (which is enough to get some things in the house buzzing). Anything more and it makes a metallic rattle or clicking like sound when there are quick bursts of heavy bass. I checked the dustcap, and it seems like it's on tight, no other noticible issues. I originally had an oaudio 500watt plate amp that powered it. I bought the amp thinking that I was never going to dump too much power into the sub, but after talking to John at AE, I figured there was a possibility of amp clipping. The problem was that I'd get rattling with the gain up only about 25 percent. I borrowed a friends sub and ran it off the oaudio amp at nearly full gain with no clipping.

I thought perhaps that the AE speakers were just a bit more power hungry, so I got the Behringer ep4000 amp, wired it up in mono, thinking that I wouldn't have any clipping problems. Rattling/clicking still appeared.

Now I did try running it in a vented enclosure, just to see what would happen. I basically removed the plate amp and put in a temporary piece of wood to cover the hole, and added an external vent to it tuned to 20hz (the box was 4 cubic feet). I had the same metallic clicking sound during moments of heavy bass with modest volume levels. (It did have slightly more sound ouput though).

So I'm more than a little dissaspointed in this driver (especially after waiting so long to get it), and I think I'm just going to cut my losses on it and the o-audio amp i had gotten for it, and just try again. I don't want to pay more for passive radiators to try to salavage this driver.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Funny you should mention that! What a frustrating experience I had with it. The short answer is that I tried all of them!

The O-audio amp apparently has some db gain at the lower filter settings - which meant that the 12 and 16hz options were not usable (I'd get a lot of rattle during movies). The 20hz filter protected it more often during movies, but I'd run sine waves through it from 20 to 60 and still have the problems when I'd turn the amp knob around the halfway mark. Nothing ruins the movie experience quite like, at the moment of some peak action sequence, hereing a rattle come out of your sub... so, gain was set back down to about 25%.

Anyway, and disapointingly enough, I'd leave the highpass filter at 25hz. But then, the output was so low because I also kept the lowpass filter at around 60hz, that I'd want to turn the gain up on the amp - which then caused it to clip, which caused me to unplug everything and put the speaker back in the box out of frustration!

No matter what I did, I just couldn't get the db's out of it reliably. I also came across some recent criticism of this driver, so I'm really questioning its long term relaibility anway. I really do not want to make another enclosure for it, and then have it fail.
 

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Understood. And I also understand your frustration. If there is indeed a mechanical issue with the sub then it should be replaced under warranty with no cost to you. A simple way to verify the sub is mount it on a couple of saw horses ( one horse on each side supporting the frame) and run one channel of the EP amp with test tones, making sure the amp doesn't clip. If you hear mechanical noises then your sub has a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the advice. I'll try that. Since I've gone into more detail about the AE driver than I had intended to, let me add this...

I am not suggesting that all of them have this problem, and I still really don't know if it is me, my setup, or the driver. I still contend that it looks like they are made well. From what I know of the AE company, they would probably be very helpful in a troubleshooting/warranty scenario - and I will follow up with John about this.

It's just that I've spent about 900 bucks between the sub, amp, second amp, and enclosure supplies (not to mention the many weekends building the thing), only to have less than steller auditions of it with the wife while trying to watch some movies. I think I have a better chance of keeping this project funded if I can just get a proven subwoofer/box combo built. It's what I did for the left,right, and center speakers (I went with a slight modification of Zaph's ZDT3.5 design). My wife was so impressed with the quality, sound-levels, and size that she instantly gave me the go ahead to bring in as many as two end table size subs. 900 bucks into it, and I have three failed attempts at watching movies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So is there any modestly price 15" sub that will fit well in a 6 to 7 cubic foot vented box and can be powered by a Behringer ep4000? If not, I need to figure out how to build an end table that is 9 cubic feet big.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm looking into the Tempest-X2 15"

The power requirements make me think that my amp could power two of them, which would really cut the price of the total project if I only need one amp between the two subs. I'm eager to see how it will model in a smaller enclosure. The price is right. Does anyone know the RMS power on this?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
This looks great. I noticed on the DIYcable website that they say the Tempest would work well setup as: "180L (6.35 cubic feet) Ported and tuned to 19Hz with 15% poly-fill." So this is right in line with my limitations. Do you think that my amp could power two of these subs, or would I need one amp per sub?

I also like the pricepoint. I'm thinking two of these, powered from one channel each of the ep4000, (or each having its own amp in bridged mode) would make two great end tables sized boxes. I'd spend about 450 for the drivers, and perhaps another 350 for another amp (if needed) and I'd think I'd get the right HT experience without taking up too much space.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I was originally thinking of using an "f-mod" RCA inline high pass filter. Unfortunately, it looks like the lowest they go is 20hz.
 

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It works fine when I pump less than 300 watts in it (which is enough to get some things in the house buzzing). Anything more and it makes a metallic rattle or clicking like sound when there are quick bursts of heavy bass. I checked the dustcap, and it seems like it's on tight, no other noticible issues. I originally had an oaudio 500watt plate amp that powered it. I bought the amp thinking that I was never going to dump too much power into the sub, but after talking to John at AE, I figured there was a possibility of amp clipping. The problem was that I'd get rattling with the gain up only about 25 percent. I borrowed a friends sub and ran it off the oaudio amp at nearly full gain with no clipping.

I thought perhaps that the AE speakers were just a bit more power hungry, so I got the Behringer ep4000 amp, wired it up in mono, thinking that I wouldn't have any clipping problems. Rattling/clicking still appeared.

Now I did try running it in a vented enclosure, just to see what would happen. I basically removed the plate amp and put in a temporary piece of wood to cover the hole, and added an external vent to it tuned to 20hz (the box was 4 cubic feet). I had the same metallic clicking sound during moments of heavy bass with modest volume levels. (It did have slightly more sound ouput though).

So I'm more than a little dissaspointed in this driver (especially after waiting so long to get it), and I think I'm just going to cut my losses on it and the o-audio amp i had gotten for it, and just try again. I don't want to pay more for passive radiators to try to salavage this driver.
sounds like an unraveling coil or spur on the coil. has the sub been bottomed out? (loud whack from former slamming on bottom plate) or does this sub soft bottom.

Take the speaker out of the enclosure and run it free air. can you reach Xmax without the metallic sound free air?


This looks great. I noticed on the DIYcable website that they say the Tempest would work well setup as: "180L (6.35 cubic feet) Ported and tuned to 19Hz with 15% poly-fill." So this is right in line with my limitations. Do you think that my amp could power two of these subs, or would I need one amp per sub?
I read on here that there is no point to stuffing a vented enclosure
 
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