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hmm Every house i have ever built , all our electricians use 12/2 , with 20 amp breakers. It makes sense since lighting is pretty weak.. I think you can use up to 80 watts on a single 15 amp breaker,
Thats very dangerous because a device that draws 12.5 amps (1800watts) continuous will trip a 15 amp breaker if you put a 20amp breaker on that line you are causing a fire hazard if the device is only rated for 15amps and starts to over draw due to a problem as the breaker will not trip until it hits 18amps continuous. That is not code what so ever, VERY dangerous. 20amp circuits should only be used with devices that require 20 amps.
But anyhow this is way off topic so we should start a new thread if we want to talk about this more.
 

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During power-up, you get a huge in-rush current with a traditional large torroid, + capacitor bank. It exceeds 10A and your voltage drops with the in-rush of current (light dim). If you have lights that are dimming when you are playing music, you have entirely too many devices on one circuit and I'd be concerned with the safety of that type of operation.

If you are wiring a house, by all means use at least 12/3 or larger because the cost of Romex, is trivial for wiring just one room. You don't need to wire the entire house that way but if you are going to have a energy sucking projector, 7-channel amp and massive pro-sound amp driving a monster sub, you may as well use a little overkill and run a couple dedicated circuits.

Most people are not rewiring their house when they buy a sub though. Most already have a house built and they have to deal with what is in place. In most circumstances, a EP2500 will run just fine on a standard 15A household circuit. Otherwise they would have real legal problems selling them. That is my only point.

Also... the voltage drop you see is directly tied to the DCR of the Romex and the run from the transformer to your house. Those have to meet code, for only so much voltage drop from the transformer. Most people won't have any input on what gets put in the ground/run to the pole between the transformer and main breaker box. When you upgrade Romex, it is only lowering the DCR between the breaker box and the outlets where you are plugging in devices. The total DCR is a combination of the transformer ---- breaker box ---- AC outlet. That last step is the most restrictive because you likely have welding cable size wire running to the transformer.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
 

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Discussion Starter #23
While I don't plan to rewire my house, I am looking for an EP2500. What's a good source? The best price I have seen is $270.
 

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That's a good price. I paid $269 with free shipping from B&H Photo a while back. The EP2500 is discontinued, replaced by the EP4000.
 

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Anything under $300 is a good price for the EP2500. I stumbled into one used for $250 shipped, and even at full price it's a hell of a deal for a sub amp.
 

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Even under the heaviest of loads, I've never seen the meter read more then 10 amps. Granted, it reads slowly, so maybe I've hit 12+ but the meter was too slow to show it and it only reads around 10 amps.
As someone who reviews computer power supplies for a living and has to deal with power draw meters on a regular basis, I can tell you that unless this is a very expensive meter you're likely missing the transient peaks being drawn from the wall.

I have a 20A dedicated circuit run with 12/2 into my review lab - this is where my sub amp is too. The circuit sees double duty... I've had computer power supplies as large as 1500 watts pulling some massive current draws through that circuit. I figured since the lab is across the basement from the home theater, that'd be a good place to put a pro amp with a loud fan and at the same time it can use the 20A circuit when I'm not reviewing stuff ;)

Anyway, making sure one's electrical service is up to snuff is definitely something one needs to do if planning on pushing a big pro amp hard. A good thing to do in general, too - this place had some fire hazards in the wiring before I got here.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
That's a good price. I paid $269 with free shipping from B&H Photo a while back. The EP2500 is discontinued, replaced by the EP4000.
From reading info here on this site, it seems few if any people are seeing any advantage in the EP4000 over the EP2500. Is there any reason to pay a premium for the EP4000?
 

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From what I've been seeing, there's very little if any difference between them. I'd go for the cheaper model, if I was going Behringer. I run QSC myself.
 

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From reading info here on this site, it seems few if any people are seeing any advantage in the EP4000 over the EP2500. Is there any reason to pay a premium for the EP4000?
I haven't seen or heard of anyone singing the praises of the 4000 over the 2500. If it were me I would just go with the 2500. I have 2 of them and they perform perfectly. The fan is the only thing I could complain about but the mod is so easy a caveman can do it.:bigsmile:
 

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As someone who reviews computer power supplies for a living and has to deal with power draw meters on a regular basis, I can tell you that unless this is a very expensive meter you're likely missing the transient peaks being drawn from the wall.

I have a 20A dedicated circuit run with 12/2 into my review lab - this is where my sub amp is too. The circuit sees double duty... I've had computer power supplies as large as 1500 watts pulling some massive current draws through that circuit. I figured since the lab is across the basement from the home theater, that'd be a good place to put a pro amp with a loud fan and at the same time it can use the 20A circuit when I'm not reviewing stuff ;)

Anyway, making sure one's electrical service is up to snuff is definitely something one needs to do if planning on pushing a big pro amp hard. A good thing to do in general, too - this place had some fire hazards in the wiring before I got here.
Yes, that's why I tried to qualify how slowly the meter reads. I have both a Monster line conditioner that displays the amps drawn, plus a $350 Fluke. I'm sure I'm not seeing those transient peaks, but as Kevin said, they aren't what blows the circuit...but as *you* know, it does heat up the wire a bit, don't it?

I haven't seen or heard of anyone singing the praises of the 4000 over the 2500. If it were me I would just go with the 2500. I have 2 of them and they perform perfectly. The fan is the only thing I could complain about but the mod is so easy a caveman can do it.:bigsmile:
I don't think anyones really taken the time to do a proper measurement. Is that Chuck guys still testing and measuring amps? Maybe someone can send him one for a week to do a direct comparo.

I just put new fans in my 2500's. it made a huge difference.
Is it, a toyota fan? :rofl:

Sorry, that was so bad I should be banned. :wave:
 

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I haven't seen or heard of anyone singing the praises of the 4000 over the 2500. If it were me I would just go with the 2500. I have 2 of them and they perform perfectly. The fan is the only thing I could complain about but the mod is so easy a caveman can do it.:bigsmile:
I believe that the internals of the 2500 and 4000 are nearly identical. The 4000 has a new "peak power rating" but the weight is about the same too. It's not 1500 more watts. It's more of a PR gimmick.

The 2500 power ratings are pretty solid tho:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=855865
 
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