[kepople]

I am trying to find out what I need to buy to power my outside speakers.
I have an HK 235 RX that I use for my 5.1 and audio listening. I am adding 4 outside speakers, and know that this amp is not enough unless I switched the output completely.

What I want is to be able to play the audio in the living room, and/or outside. It would be nice to be able to have the outside on, but inside off, but not a requirment.

I "think" I need a 2 channel amp that will go from the 235's preamps. then I can use a switch/spliiter to send the signal to the speakers.

Is this correct?

Which amp?

What is thought of Audio source amps?

Thanks
Kirby

 

[Otto]

I'm assuming that your receiver has preamp outputs. If so, you can just send that signal to the amp. Or, perhaps your receiver even has a second zone. If so, that feature is created to do just what you want, including source selection and volume control all from the receiver itself.

As for power, I just use an old receiver that I bought on eBay. Unless you'll be driving them very loud, the power requirements should be minimal. I wouldn't waste money on a new amp, or a powerful amp, for that application.

Good luck!

 

[salvasol]

I have an HK 235 RX that I use for my 5.1 and audio listening. I am adding 4 outside speakers, and know that this amp is not enough unless I switched the output completely.

What I want is to be able to play the audio in the living room, and/or outside. It would be nice to be able to have the outside on, but inside off, but not a requirment.

Do you have a dedicated room for your HT or is in the living room???

Do you plan to use both (HT and outdside music) at the same time???

What Otto suggested is okay (assuming your AVR has the Zone 2 feature), if it doesn't and you don't plan on using the AVR to watch a movie and play music at the same time; you can get a speaker selector (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062682), I have two of those to power seven pairs of speakers for the whole house.

 

[kepople]

Thanks for the replies.
The HK does have Pre outs...but does not have second zone.

I was concidering just using the Monster Power mss4 switch, but I think it will over work the HK if I use both the 5.1 and outside speakers.

It is likely that I will have all 3 zones going at the same time during football watching.

This is coming from the living room and a full blown theater will be upstairs but I will not be using it for the source since I foolishly did not run any speaker wires from the media room down stairs when we built the house.

So this is what I would like to achieve, maybe you guys can tell me what I am missing:
Living room, Front and back porchs all playing the same source
Front porch by itself
back porch by itself
Living room and back porch
living room and front porch

The challenging part:
Living room playing one thing and either porch playing another source. ie. living room watching TV and backyard playing music from the puter.

I have Apple TV hooked up to the living room stereo, so its an easy output source there for the streaming.

So in summary:
I need to be able to play all zones from the same source or split the zones up with thier own source.

The question is:
If I bought say this amp:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/548186-REG/AudioSource_AMP_102_AMP102_Power_Amplifier.html

Can I use a switch to control the outputs? and would this put out enough power to run a total of 6 speakers?

Thanks
Kirby

 

[salvasol]

The HK does have Pre outs...but does not have second zone.

I was concidering just using the Monster Power mss4 switch, but I think it will over work the HK if I use both the 5.1 and outside speakers.

It is likely that I will have all 3 zones going at the same time during football watching.

Read you HK manual, if I recall correctly is not advised to use the speaker terminals and pre-outs at the same time :yes:.

In this case, I'll go with the MSS4 switch, I'm sure it has the impedance match feature (it doesn't matter how many speakers you use it will match your AVR impedance); but the down side of this: You have to play the same source to all speakers.

Living room, Front and back porchs all playing the same source
Front porch by itself
back porch by itself
Living room and back porch
living room and front porch

You can acomplish all this with the MSS4, just remember ...you'll be playing the same source in all zones.

The challenging part:
Living room playing one thing and either porch playing another source. ie. living room watching TV and backyard playing music from the puter.

So in summary:
I need to be able to play all zones from the same source or split the zones up with thier own source.

In this case I suggest a regular AVR not just an amp ...:yes:

 

[kepople]

I did not find in the manual about the Preamps and speaker jacks being used at the same time.

Sounds like I need a second RX with 2 zones. I can in future use the impedence matching switch to add the garage.

I can split the Apple TV, Uverse, and Antenna inputs to both recievers if the preouts are not the best thing to use.

Not too many older dual zone amps on craigslist at the moment.

Opinions?

Thanks
kirby

 

[Otto]

Read you HK manual, if I recall correctly is not advised to use the speaker terminals and pre-outs at the same time :yes:.

Really? I suppose it's possible, but I've never seen that...

Not too many older dual zone amps on craigslist at the moment. Opinions?

Well, what's your budget? I think you want a multi-zone receiver (at least two zones, three might be nice). You may be able to use your current receiver to power zone 2, if necessary.

 

[salvasol]

Really? I suppose it's possible, but I've never seen that...

Here is where I saw that (Manual for Yamaha RX-V2700)

■ Connecting an external amplifier
This unit has more than enough power for any home use.
However, if you want to add more power to the speaker
output or if you want to use another amplifier, connect an
external amplifier to the PRE OUT jacks.
• When you make connections to the PRE OUT jacks, do not
make connections to the SPEAKERS terminals.
• The signals output at the FRONT PRE OUT and CENTER PRE
OUT jacks are affected by the TONE CONTROL settings (see
page 52).
• Each PRE OUT jack outputs the same channel signals as the
corresponding SPEAKERS terminals.
• Adjust the volume level of the subwoofer with the control on
the subwoofer (see page 53).
• Some signals may not be output at the SUBWOOFER PRE
OUT jack depending on the settings for “Speaker Set” ...

As you can see it doesn't give an explanation to Why??? ...it could be that because is the same signal or because it can damage the amp??? ...I read the same thing for subs (using speaker terminals and RCA jacks, but I think that's a different story :yes:.

 

[kepople]

Well, then I will see what I can do to avoid it just in case, but that sure would be the easiest way to connect it.

Amazon has the Audiosource 80watt pc amp for $164. It has a/b... So I assume that I can run both the a and B simultaneously?

it has two inputs as well which switch automatically. So, I could hook the Uverse box to the switching input and Apple TV to the constant output. That would allow me to have the streaming tunes play when the Uverse box is off.

Ideally its not what I would like, but its cheap.

Budget wise, thats about it since this is just an enviornmental music thing when we are outside.

I have a line on an HK 525 which appears to have multizone. Is that the best choice, just to the RX?

Thanks
kirby

 

[kepople]

BTW: I read through the HK manual and dont see that comment about the Preamps. I will call them monday and try to get an answer.

Kirby

 

[kepople]

Well, he is correct...

I called Harman Kardon and they confirmed that you should NOT use the Preamp outs and the speaker outputs at the same time.

So thier suggestion was another Reciever if I want seperate sources for multizones at the same time.
The other possiblity was to use the amp with a "real good" switch and playing the same source at all zones.

So I have to Split my inputs to the recievers which means that I have to put some kind of spliter on my line outputs from the Apple TV, and Uverse boxes in order to have the same audio playing inside and outside.

He suggested a multizone RX of course, but I am thinking that if I cant find that, then get another HK reciever similar to what I have and get the Monster Power MSS4 switch.

What a bunch of trouble for 6 speakers.
This is probably the best choice so that I can have total independence...

So the final question is:
How many watts do I need using the MSS4 to drive all 6 speakers at the same time (worse case scenario) (2 front porch, 2 back porch and 2 in the garage)

ATV ---- AVR235 --------5.1 (living Room)
. |
. |-------New AVR ---MSS4 Switch
..........................................|---------Front porch speakers
..........................................|---------Back porch Speakers
..........................................|---------Garage Speakers

Can everything on the MSS4 switch be played at the same time if the amp is powerfull enough?

THanks again guys
Kirby

 

[salvasol]

I called Harman Kardon and they confirmed that you should NOT use the Preamp outs and the speaker outputs at the same time.

Just out of curiosity ...Did they tell you why???, I emailed Yamaha yesterday to ask the reason, but if you know maybe you can post the reason ...:yes:

Can everything on the MSS4 switch be played at the same time if the amp is powerfull enough?

I'm using two speaker selectors (from Radio Shack) and powering seven pairs of speakers with Sony STR DG500 without problems.

I think you'll be fine, just be sure the MSS4 has the impedance matching feature to protect your AVR :T.

 

[kepople]

They did not tell me why. I just wanted confirmation, but I guess I should have asked.

The Monster Mss4 has impedence matching for the 4 speaker pairs. Just need an amp powerful enough I guess...

So I think ordering the Denon 1708 is a go, and I will use it for primary audio for down stairs 5.1. I will then use the HK for powering the front and back speakers. It makes more sense to power the garage speakers off the second Zone od the Denon.

Then its on to hooking up the Home Theater equipment in the media room.

Thanks for the replies
Kirby

 

[kepople]

Whos right...

Okay, I sent an email the same day I called, and just got a reply...ummmm different response...

Email:
Hi Kirby,

This is actually fine to do. However, I would caution you about
this because it can be easy to damage your speakers for the second zone.
If the second receiver has pre out and main in jacks with jumper pins
across them, then you can remove the pins and plug directly into the
Main In jacks and it will act like a power amp. However, if it does not
have main in jacks, then I would recommend connecting to an available
input on the second receiver (not a phono input) and set the tone
controls flat, up the middle. Do not turn the volume control higher
than 11:00 (conventional volume control) or above -10dB (newer digital
volume control). The danger here is in having two preamps in line with
one another. It is easy to make the signal going to the amps of the
second receiver too large for it to handle. This will cause distortion,
even if you do not hear it, and will damage speakers.

Sincerely,
James Pagano
Internet Support Specialist
Harman Consumer Group

My email:
I am wanting to use the Preamp outs to another HK Receiver which will
power 4 outdoor speakers.
While using the Preouts, I will still be using the 5.1 standard speaker
outputs.

Someone told me that using the Preamps and the speaker outputs at the
same time is not recommended on the HK AVR235...

Is this true?

Are there any problems with this setup?
THanks
kirby


So, who do you believe... the one word guy on the phone, or this one?

One more question:
On the Denon 1908 which is probably what I will get it has a digital optical out that is assignable. So I wonder if I just pass this to the Harman Kardon which will use the Mss4 to feed the front and back porch?

Kirby

 

[salvasol]

Re: Whos right...

Okay, I sent an email the same day I called, and just got a reply...ummmm different response...

I think that they're describing how to hook up both AVR's with the pre-outs, but didn't responded to your question about using speaker terminals and preouts in the same AVR at the same time :huh:.

One more question:
On the Denon 1908 which is probably what I will get it has a digital optical out that is assignable. So I wonder if I just pass this to the Harman Kardon which will use the Mss4 to feed the front and back porch? Kirby

If you get the Denon 1908 you'll be fine, it has the zone 2 pre-out; so you'll have to connect that to HK 235 RX (use analog (red and white cables) to any input according to the email you got, except phono) and connect the MSS4 to speakers terminals and then speakers to MSS4 and you're done ....:T

 

[Otto]

Re: Whos right...

So, who do you believe... the one word guy on the phone, or this one?

Haha. I'm not sure what to make of that mess. The email rationalization is related to using two preamps, but it doesn't have to be implemented that way -- you could just use an amplifier, and that entire discussion would not apply.

I believe that the manual says that, but it doesn't really make any sense. The preamp output and the speaker output wouldn't be tied together such that at would affect impedance. They're both active at the same time, so they should both work together. I would do it if you want...

 

[kepople]

Well, I am going to order the 1709 tomorrow.

The 1709 is supposed to be 7.1 or 5.1 and 2 at the same time. So I am hoping that it works as I think.
According to the manual you can use the Zone 2 outs with another amp, but I want to use the line inputs into the the second Rx so I can have other sources outside. I dont want to tie the HK into the second zone of the Denon so according to 1709 manual you can do it with the Amp Assign outputs which you connect the second zone speakers directly to.
If I tie the HL rx into the zone two line inputs, then I have to rely more on the SS4 for the garage speakers and make the HK rx work harder if I am using all the speakers at once.

kirby

 

[kepople]

1909 orderd...

kirby

 

[salvasol]

Re: Whos right...

Haha. I'm not sure what to make of that mess. The email rationalization is related to using two preamps, ...

Don't you love some responses when you email the manufacturer ...here is what I got from Yamaha:

David,

Thank you for your inquiry regarding Yamaha product. We don't suggest connecting both the pre-amp outputs and the matching speakers terminal outputs. This can cause damage to the receiver and we do not support connecting it that way.
Best Regards,
The Yamaha Customer Support Team
P.S. Please do not remove the " [ref: " in the Email Subject when replying to this email.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Receivers [AV and Stereo]
Model: RX-V2700
I need a clarification on the speakers hook up.
I read on the manual (pag 27) a warning/tip that if you use the pre-outs to don't use the speakers terminals to make the connection, it doesn't give the reason Why not.

Can somebody explain this to me??? ...What's the reason to avoid connecting speakers to speakers terminals and pre-outs at the same time.
Thank You

 

[andrewsch123]

Hi,

I also don't suggest connecting both the pre-amp outputs and the matching speakers terminal outputs. :wave:

Thanks,