[Emuc64]

Hello Again,

I was alerted to a sale on HSU subwoofers. The VTF1 and VTF2 MK3 have prices that sandwich themselves in between the PB10-nsd and pb12-nsd. Here are the prices including shipping to me:

VTF1 $450
PB10-nsd $499.15
VTF2 Mk3 $578
PB12-nsd $626.22

The PB12 is out of my budget and is there for reference. Should I consider saving a bit with the VTF1, keeping with the PB10 or saving a little more for the VTF2?

Thanks,
H

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
While both good choices, the PB10 goes down to 20Hz whereas the VTF-1 is rated to 25 Hz. I would say it is a nobrainer for 50 Dollars to get the SVS. Also, the SVS has a more powerful amplifier. By 125 watts!
Cheers,
AD

 

[Emuc64]

Hello,

So, I'm still waiting for a decent deal (and a few paychecks) until I spring for a system.

I've a few random questions while I'm still shopping:

1) If I were to find that dialog through a center speaker were not very clear, would turning up the volume on the center speaker only (assuming you can do that) be the only way to hear dialog?

2) The tower speakers usually have some sort of bass due to the way they are designed. With a subwoofer, would the receiver know that there was one connected? If so, then does it give all of the bass duties to the sub? Or does the tower still do bass duty?

3) Is there a sticky thread that tells you how to properly break in speakers and subs? What if I can't play music at a moderate volume 24/7 or even while I'm away at work? Could I make due with a lower volume for a longer break in period?

Even if I don't have my speakers yet, it can't hurt to know what to do next, right?

Thanks again,
H

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,

So, I'm still waiting for a decent deal (and a few paychecks) until I spring for a system.

I've a few random questions while I'm still shopping:

1) If I were to find that dialog through a center speaker were not very clear, would turning up the volume on the center speaker only (assuming you can do that) be the only way to hear dialog?

2) The tower speakers usually have some sort of bass due to the way they are designed. With a subwoofer, would the receiver know that there was one connected? If so, then does it give all of the bass duties to the sub? Or does the tower still do bass duty?

3) Is there a sticky thread that tells you how to properly break in speakers and subs? What if I can't play music at a moderate volume 24/7 or even while I'm away at work? Could I make due with a lower volume for a longer break in period?

Even if I don't have my speakers yet, it can't hurt to know what to do next, right?

Thanks again,
H

Hello,
1) You can raise the level of the Center Channel Speaker on the fly with most receivers. I have never owned a receiver where that has not been the case. Mind you that at loud levels, if your amplification is lacking, raising the level could lead to distortion.

2) With modern receivers, there is a speaker setup page on the setup menu. On this page, it asks you which speakers you have (Front Left, Center, Front Right, Surround Left, Surround Right, Surround Back left, Surround back Right, and Subwoofer) and the size of the speaker. (Large or Small)
Most receivers actually do this for you now via Audyssey, MCACC (Pioneer) et al. Through test tones via a microphone it determines the distance, level and size of the speakers. With floorstanders, you can run them full range, but most cross all speakers over at 80 Hz when using a subwoofer. If you do not have a subwoofer, this is not the case.

3) I am not sure if there is a sticky, but just take it easy for the first 50-100 hours. From there, spend time learning the sound and abilities of your system. Pay special attention while playing at higher volumes for compression and distortion. If the sound is starting to sound distorted, immediately turn down the volume.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[lsiberian]

Hello,

So, I'm still waiting for a decent deal (and a few paychecks) until I spring for a system.

I've a few random questions while I'm still shopping:

1) If I were to find that dialog through a center speaker were not very clear, would turning up the volume on the center speaker only (assuming you can do that) be the only way to hear dialog?

2) The tower speakers usually have some sort of bass due to the way they are designed. With a subwoofer, would the receiver know that there was one connected? If so, then does it give all of the bass duties to the sub? Or does the tower still do bass duty?

3) Is there a sticky thread that tells you how to properly break in speakers and subs? What if I can't play music at a moderate volume 24/7 or even while I'm away at work? Could I make due with a lower volume for a longer break in period?

Even if I don't have my speakers yet, it can't hurt to know what to do next, right?

Thanks again,
H

3.I can tell you speaker break in is a myth that goes on the list with fancy cables, amp audibility and other crazy things. Save yourself money and trouble. Get the best speakers/sub you can get and add a receiver that does the job.

1. I don't think your space is large enough to warrant a center speaker. But if you insist you can run it hot to get better hearing for the volume.

2. Frequency response in a loudspeaker is the product of many variables. On your budget I'd suggest a bookshelf approach due to the budget. Building a great tower is expensive even as a hobbyist.

For the record the best budget speakers I've heard and evaluated are the Behringer 2030p's They are less than 150 for the price and are probably more than adequate for your needs. There is a lot of junk in the lower price range so be careful of it. These are widely used in studios and by budget minded theater folks with great satisfaction.

The step up from those is the Ascend Acoustics 170 bookshelf.

I base my evaluation off measurements and both of these do extremely well. They aren't perfect, but this is a budget setup.

2 pairs of the behringers with an HK AVR 247(adequate) direct from harman kardon would run you about 500 bucks.

That would leave the rest to getting a nice sub. I suggest the SVS or Epik in that price range.

If you decide you want to go with my suggested setup just pm me and I'll help you work the best price.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
There is always going to be debate between those who believe in speaker break in, sonic attributes in amplification, etc...
I usually try to avoid these debates and rarely make declarations about many of these third rail topics.
That being said, the vast majority of Speaker Manufacturers do believe in break in. As do the majority of Professional Reviewers. With things like the rubber surrounds of speaker drivers, I do think that there is a certain amount of break in. However, I respect the opinions of those who believe otherwise.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[tonyvdb]

3.I can tell you speaker break in is a myth that goes on the list with fancy cables, amp audibility and other crazy things. Save yourself money and trouble. Get the best speakers/sub you can get and add a receiver that does the job.

This statement is not factual, most speaker manufacturers clearly state in there manuals that come with the speakers that break in is going to change the sound over the first few weeks of use.

 

[tonyvdb]

LOL, :rofl2: we keep doing this Jack. We think alike.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
Tony, indeed my friend. Means a great deal to know we think alike on most every audio debate.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[Emuc64]

Hello,

I'm about to purchase a sr707 that's on sale. To test the unit, could I attach my old speakers from the Onkyo gxw-5.1 system? They're small cube speakers and I can't even find the manual online to look at specs. I don't want to damage them but I also don't want the sr707 sitting in a box for several months until I get the rest of the speakers.

Thanks,
H

 

[tonyvdb]

You will be fine running the old speakers for now, just dont push the volume to hard through them.

 

[Emuc64]

Hi tonyvdb,

I finally found some specs on the satellite speakers on cnet.
"Speakers Included 5 x Satellite speaker - 10 Watt - 150 - 20000 Hz - 6 Ohm - Wired , 1 x Active subwoofer - 25 Watt - 20 - 150 Hz - 3 Ohm - Wired "

You said not to push the volume too hard through them. To clarify, does this mean only turn the volume up to "normal" levels? Meaning how loud they normally sound with it's original receiver/subwoofer? Or even less than that?

Thanks,
H

 

[tonyvdb]

Hi tonyvdb,


You said not to push the volume too hard through them. To clarify, does this mean only turn the volume up to "normal" levels? Meaning how loud they normally sound with it's original receiver/subwoofer?

Yes that is correct.

You may be able to find some really good deals on speakers tomorrow during the Black Friday sales so maybe thats a good place to start.

 

[TonyG]

I know what's it's like to try and hit a tight budget, so here are a couple of items that could be a match to your sub-woofer needs. Of the three sub manufacturers that have been mentioned most in this thread, Outlaw Audio seems to have the best Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals. They have the LFM-1 Compact for $339 shipped or the LFM-1 Plus for $467 shipped.

A better sub is always valuable, but you expressed some doubt about spending 40% of your budget on a sub. The Compact would work in your room for non-reference level bass, but the Plus would give you more headroom.

Good Luck!

:T

 

[Emuc64]

Hello Again,

Well, I finally got my first piece of equipment. A new Onkyo SR707.

I'm liking the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus sub that TonyG suggested. So I want to get that.

Now, the question is what to do about the speakers. If I wanted to do bookshelf sized speakers instead of floor speakers (room size limitation), what should I get in the less than $350 shipped category? I'm looking for 5.0 set.

The only ones that seem interesting so far are the Energy Classic 5 pack from Energy's site. $199 shipped. Would those go well with the Onkyo and LFM-1+?

Anyone know of other good deals or suggestions?

Many Thanks (It IS Thanksgiving in the US),
H

 

[Emuc64]

RE: Energy Classic 5 pack... I can't find any from their authorized internet dealers. :huh:

I did find them at Newegg, I believe a Non-Authorized internet dealer.

Other suggestions would certainly be welcome. Thanks!

 

[TonyG]

I try not to push too hard when people are making decisions, but I think in your price range that the idea of going with 5 sats is a good one. I also think sats tend to work better in terms of space management in non-dedicated theater rooms. The Take 5s are a great price performer. They need to be crossed over at 100-120hz, so some people think they "localize" the bass when the sub is crossed over that high. There are many happy Take 5 customers, and that price is great.

Another option would be the SVS SBS-01 5.0. On B-Stock, it would be $360 or so delivered (depending on where you live). I suspect this is probably a little less efficient, but you have a reasonably strong amp so that won't be a big issue. The SVS have larger woofers and should be crossed over at 80hz and might be a better match with the Outlaw which goes low and deep. The Energys are smaller, lighter, and therefore less demanding to mount on the wall.

There's always trade offs, and there are a number of reviews on the internet on both systems. You'll need to allow some extra funds for mounting brackets/stands with a sat setup versus floorstanding fronts. Another challenge on the journey to home theater bliss!

Have fun.

 

[tonyvdb]

Emuc64, Your budget for speakers is going to give you issues with sound quality in the end that you wont be happy with. You would be better off using some old used speakers for the sorround channels and spand you entire budget on just some decent front speakers and a sub for starters. You can get away with phantoming the centre channel to your left and right speakers.
Dont simpy buy speakers for all 5 channels on a very limited budget as all that will get you is unsatifactory results and you will end up replacing them sooner rather than later.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
I could not agree more with Tony. Another huge advantage to purchasing high quality speakers is they will actually hold a good bit of value should you decide to upgrade. Super cheap speakers or HTIB's have next to no resale value.

To be honest the current system I have has been a constant evolution of my first system I purchased as an Undergrad. I started with a pair of Paradigm Monitor 7's. At the time, I had neither a Center Channel or Surrounds, but I had a great pair of speakers.

A year later, I purchased the matching Center Channel and Surrounds. After graduation, I sold all of my Monitor Series Paradigm for a nice sum and put that money towards a pair of Paradigm Reference Studio 100 V.2's. Again, I did not have the funds to buy all of the matching speakers so I held off until I could.
At the time I matched the Studio's, I also started a 2 channel system based around a pair of Martin Logan Aerius i's.

Three years ago, I sold off my Paradigm Reference System for thousands and put the proceeds towards a pair of Martin Logan Vantages. Again, I could not initially afford the 3000 Dollar matching Center Channel (wanted a V8 sports sedan), but I waited and got spectacularly lucky when Sound Advice went out of business and picked up the Stage for 70% off and a pair of Vista's for 70% off. And a few months ago, I finally got a Martin Logan Subwoofer to complete my 5.1 package.

My point in all of this is to back up what Tony is saying and what I always advocate, that is to buy the best you can afford and not give in to buying 5 subpar speakers at once for instant gratification when you could afford one quality pair of speakers instead.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[tonyvdb]

Even to add to this using my setup. I've been using the same speakers since 1992 and still love the sound from them. I payed big bucks (for me anyhow at age 22) for quality speakers and still have no plans to replace them. They would cost at least $2500 to replace just the 7 speakers today with something comparable.
My receiver, display, dvd player, and other components have all been upgraded several times. while still using the same speakers because they were good quality.