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Another subwoofer GTG, Southern Style

20K views 55 replies 10 participants last post by  Ricci 
#1 · (Edited)
The Great Southern Sub Shootout​
Official Date Saturday April 18th, 2009



If you want to attend be sure to post in this forum thread and I'll send you a PM with location info.​


Drivers/ Subwoofers confirmed

ED 190v2 18 in a large ported cab tuned to 15hz (Brandonnash)
Shiva X 12 in a 6.5 cu ft 18hz tuned ported cab and possibly a ED A7S-450 (mjg100)
LMS 18 sealed (Ricci)
XXX 18 sealed (Ricci)
Audiopulse Epic 12" possibly X 2 (Robertcharles)
John J. from AE is likely sending something. TD18+H, AV15, or AV12 with PR's, not sure yet.
Outlaw LFM-1 (Kip)
WorxAudio Technologies TL.118SS or another nice pro sub (KyleLee)
Bic H100 (Villi)
JL 13W7 (Carl Kennedy from JL Audio)
Amplifiers confirmed

EP2500 ( Brandonnash)
CE4000 (Ricci)
Crest 8002 (Ricci)
ITECH 8000 (Robertcharles)
Receiver: HK AVR-247 (Kip)








Hey guys, After reading all about the WI sub shootout and regretting not being able to make the 10 or so hour drive up there I've did some thinking that maybe us southerners could throw something together. If there's enough interest we'll set a good date. I'm thinking a Saturday in April. Nothing concrete yet. Have been working on a straight home theater meet for a while, but interest there is lacking. Just sent out pm's to all that were interested to see if they still want to come down Murfreesboro's way.

My setup right now is nothing spectacular. ED 19Ov.2 in a ~12.5 cubic foot ported box tuned to 15 hz. Powered as of tomorrow with an EP2500. Athena bookshelves and Pioneer receiver. 55" Mitsubishi HD RPTV.

The room is a game room/media room. Roughly 22'X22' with carpet over concrete floor. For outside measurement (depending on weather) have a larger back yard that could probably be used for good raw data without room gain.

Spoke with Ricci on PM and he's more than likely up for it with some of his drivers, amps and measurement equipment when we get a date.

I'm located in Murfreesboro, TN just outside of Nashville. Good central southern location for anyone wanting to make the drive. Only ~2.5 hours from Atlanta and 40 minutes from Nashville.

I'm new to the whole "meet" thing, so any input would be appreciated. I would like to limit the amount of subs/attendees ONLY because from reading posts on Warpdrv's GTG thread it seems that there was so much woofage that it was hard to get a good feel observation of everything there.

Oh, one more thing, I'm also a big BBQ buff, so I would imagine I'll have to make some good pulled pork for the day too. I've received high praise for my Q so I'll see what I can do to get everyone fed too.

Brandon
 
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#2 ·
I'm interested, but with school - it'd have to be on the weekend. I'm in Chattanooga, so not a far drive. I'm not sure if I'd have anything to show - depending on the time, a smalled 3 ft^3 sealed box with 2 Mach5 MAW15's on an LT circuit. That's only if I can get the second MAW in time. For now I just have one.
 
#5 ·
Brandon has set the date as Saturday April the 18th. So far we have a good selection of subwoofers and amps shaping up.

Drivers/ Subwoofers confirmed

ED 190v2 18 in a large ported cab tuned to 15hz (Brandonnash)
Shiva X 12 in a 6.5 cu ft 18hz tuned ported cab and possibly a ED A7S-450 (mjg100)
LMS 18 sealed (me)
XXX 18 sealed (me)
John J. from AE is likely sending something. TD18+H, AV15, or AV12 with PR's, not sure yet.

Amplifiers confirmed

EP2500 ( Brandonnash)
CE4000 (me)
Crest 8002 (me)

There are a lot of tentatives and unconfirmed people and gear that I'm not listing. Including some noteworthy people and equipment, such as a Worx audio TS118.ss that uses TC Sounds big Neo 18 PA woofer. We are working on shipping with Kyle K. on that. Rumors of an IT-8000 amplifier and multiple AV15's are another example showing up. Hopefully people will start to confirm, or not be confirmed soon.

If you are interested in coming and bringing some gear, or not, please let it be known. I believe that there is still room for a few more attendees.
 
#7 ·
Any ideas for good demo material? I'm guessing the best way to go is a good mix of stuff. Some heavy bass movies and some music. I think acoustic bass would probably be one of the best way of evaluating these for SQ. Wanting to make a dvd with around 30 minutes-1 hour so we have plenty of time to listen to each sub.
 
#8 ·
I'm confirming the delivery of a WorxAudio TL.118SS. (tuning ~24Hz) If that falls thru I will have a similar pro audio subwoofer prototype that uses the same driver. Honestly, i hope there is some good competition, this thing is a beast. I'll front shipping, i just need a trusty caretaker on the other end. I would like to see this run off the I-T8k!
 
#11 ·
That sounds great Kyle. PM me with the shipping details if you don't mind. Hopefully John J. is going to send one of his TD18+H's in a pro style vented cab. I think he spec'd tuning at about 28hz to me at the WI GTG. I'll have both an LMS 18 and a XXX there but let's be honest, we both know that they aren't going to compete with the Worx in the chest slam / gut punch, 35-100hz department especially in sealed cubes.

I do hope that you don't mean you want the IT8000 bridged into it? :demon: I'll not be held responsible for what happens then. Worst case if Robert doesn't show up with the IT8000, is we'll have to make do with the 8002 with it's lowly but quite real 3800w. I just got that amp about a week ago and it is awesome. It's noticeably stronger than a CE4000, looks better, has quieter fans, adjustable input gain, PFC, ground lift switch which completely removed all of the hum and buzz from my SDX's:yay2: and accepts any voltage 90-240v.

Brandon,

Do you have a laundry room with 220v close by to the listening room? :devil: I could always bring one of the PL9.0's :paddle:. Then we could have a powerhouse amp shoot out too between it and the IT8000.




For some really testing bass, the sound wave scene in Hulk is a good start, although some may not want their sub stressed in such a way. :huh:
The XXX says bring it on. That scene was incredible the first time I watched it.
 
#12 ·
I am definitely going to bring the itech8000. I am very ready to see what this thing can do in testing situations. I have yet to get either of these things going.

I have a question. Does anyone know if the itech is able to be driven directly from home 5.1 processors. I do not seem to be able to get his thing going until the volume control is turned all the way up. Even then, the amp is barely lighting the signal light. Still have the -20 and -10 lights to go.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Robert
 
#13 ·
I will have a gain booster by then. Just haven't got around to order one yet. Ricci is also bringing his rane and it has gain boost. You will be good to go with the itech.

Looks like I will remove the tentative from your attending. Looking forward to that amp. A little worried about my home power supply though. Hope I have enough current to run that.
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#14 ·
Robert,

Is there no input sensitivity adjustment on the Itech? I had thought that there was.:scratchhead: It should be a small switch on the back. Not worries, the Rane has a lot of gain possible.

Brandon,

Do you have a 220v outlet for a dryer within distance of the listening room? I could make up an extension cord if you do for the IT8000. I need to make one for my PL9.0's anyway. If not no biggie. It should run off of regular 120v anyway. I just don't know if it'll make full power ( not that we'll need it anyway).
 
#15 ·
I will have to check the voltage on it. I know zero about home electrical so I am just assuming but I would guess the washer and dryer would be on the beefiest breaker. It is close enough to the room that we could use it if needed.

I am going to try to get REW to work this weekend so we can have two setups at once if needed. Only messed with it a few minutes in the past and had no luck. Hopefully getting it to work. I am only using a SPL meter as the microphone. That should work right? I know its not the most ideal setup but I don't want to blow a couple hundred on a mic.
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#16 ·
If it's 220v you'll know the plug or outlet should be different or labeled. Washers are usually 120v but the dryer which needs more juice is usually 220v. Easy way is to look in your breaker box.

REW isn't too hard. It's the initial set-up that is rough. After you get it all set up and working finally it's cake from there. I can help you out if we get time while I'm there.
 
#17 ·
Getting closer. Less than a month away and we are close to being full on subwoofers. It will be a lot of talk and setup discussion from here on out.

I am literally amazed at the amount of people that want to attend this. At first I thought it would just be neighboring cities, but we have people coming so far from 4 states and possibly a fifth and subs being shipped from as far away as California.

Will update the list here shortly.
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#18 ·
Subwoofer and amp list updated. Several great subs and huge amps to be in attendance. I would still like to see another commercially made sub or two. I would really like a big EPIK or SVS sub to compare to. If anyone has one and are willing to transport let me know before we're all full up.
 
#19 ·
For anybody following this it looks like the Worx Audio pro sub is confirmed and there is a possibility that a JL Audio 13W7 driver in a sealed cab will be present. I don't think John J. has been heard from in awhile, so it looks like he may not be sending anything. :dunno:. I believe that there may be a Bic H100 coming too to represent the budget sub segment. Robert is confirmed with the IT8000.

2 weeks to go...So much left to do...:no:
 
#22 ·
I am getting a bit concerned about the structural integrity of my house.

The danley thing is still just a possibility, but its looking more to the possitive. Just spoke with Ivan today and he said the owner, mike, would like him to bring a dts20 along. Told him anything would be good.

Ricci I will get with you to discuss things a bit more thoroughly in the next day or two. We should probably get on the phone over the weekend and we can get more together that way.
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#23 ·
I was thinking the same thing (about the phone, not your home being destroyed:sarcastic:).

I'm just worried about the amount of subs at this point. If Ivan brings 2 or 3 Danley subs we are getting up around 12 or 13 and I just don't see how we can get to all of them in just one day. Even if we cut that back to 8 or 9 we will still only have a limited maybe 45min time with each sub and be lucky to get that much time if everything runs smoothly ,which it won't, you know? I don't want anyone to go to all of the effort to bring their stuff out and not really get a fair chance to hear it, because everyone is spending 3 hours on the bigger, bolder, subs like the Danley's, Worx, etc...This is sort of what happened at Patrick's GTG. Everyone was all over the LMS and John's PR sub, with the Mal-x in there too and there were a whole lot of subs there that didn't get near as much play time. Just too much for 1 day.

That said. I definitely am all for at least 1 Danley, or maybe 2 showing up.

Gimme your thoughts here...
 
#24 ·
I am with you on there maybe being too many subs. I told Ivan to bring as many as he wants, but that we may not have time for all of them. If we can get this on a time schedule that fits everything in and actually abide by it we will have a better shot at a cleaner running show.
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#25 ·
We'll do our best. I'm curious why you aren't going to use the Pioneer reciever that you own and instead we are going with the HK AVR247 that someone is bringing? I only ask because at the WI GTG that was one of the hiccups that occured was that the reciever we used was switched midway and that took up about an hour getting a new one in place and it threw things off for a bit. I'm just wondering what happens if he's a bit late to arrive (Was it Vili? Kip?) with the receiver and if he wants to cut out a bit early. We are done at that point. Honestly if the Pioneer can work I'd rather use it just because it's yours and it is THERE for the haul. Plus my main goal Friday afternoon is to get my stuff in there and then we can get the main signal chain going and it'll be set-up and ready to roll come Sat., when people can just bring in their sub and amp and plug in.
 
#26 ·
I was wanting to have a backup if we needed and also to have a better range of crossover points. My receiver is very functional, but its old. It only has s video switching to give you an idea of the age. It still sounds decent, but I need a better receiver. We can absolutely use mine, its just not as good as most newer receivers.
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#27 ·
for anyone who may be following this, we are just days away from D-day now. Here is some late news on this shindig.

The 13w7 will not be in attendance. JL pulled out (for all intensive purposes). John J. at AE finally got back with us and he could ship us a TD18H+ but it's the final hour and no one is able to pull together an enclosure for it in time. :crying:so AE probably won't be rep'd. Ivan B. from DSL will be showing up with a TH50, CS30 and DTS20. Plus a professional measurement rig. His participation is a huge bonus because he is very experienced and knowledgeable.:T Kyle Lee has shipped the Worx TL118. Bossobass is attending with his Raven dual 15" LT'd sub. It's an all star line up and there's still a ton of prepping to do...
 
#29 ·
Here's a break down of what went on at the GTG. This the expanded version.

We placed all of the subs in the same relative spot with a little bit of leeway for the the biggest cabs. We got things as close as we could. The sub position was up front by the left main as seen in the pics. Brandon's room I felt was fairly hard to drive compared to some other rooms (more on that later). It's decent sized, oddly shaped and open too. The subs were next to the doorway to the kitchen and there's a big closet in the room. Also as mentioned...With all of the people and equipment in the room it got real stuffy quickly, which led to us opening the windows sometime after the Shiva (I think?). I thought that the low bass noticeably dropped in level with them open. At least where I stayed all day.

We ran the commercial subs first for simplicity, followed by the DIY subs and lastly the PRO's. This would also build up our output levels throughout the day towards the more powerful subs.

Everything used a 100hz x over from Brandon's receiver with Brandon's Athena mains. The commercials were run as is. The DIY's and PRO's were all run from a single channel of one of the Crest 8002's (850w rated 8ohm, 1400w rated at 4 ohm, 2000w rated at 2ohm per channel) except for the LMS and XXX which I ran bridged on the same 8002. The Worx TL118S we ran on 1 channel of Robert's IT8000. The Danley TH50 Ivan decided to kick up a notch and run a channel of the PL9.0 into it.

Ivan and myself would both get a quick measurement of the subs when they got placed in position. Then we set the levels. We ran the 2 channel music tracks first to check for tonal issues and we ran the same ones into each sub. We mostly just stuck to the first minute or 2 of each track. Then we switched to the movies and did those scenes. Taking notes in the meantime. Unplug the sub, move the new one in place, wash, rinse, repeat. Occasionally throughout the day we started skipping certain scenes as we learned which ones were the best to use.

Here is the 2 channel track list and a description of why I decided on that track.

1. Vast: The Last One Alive
This has a slow build up with a lot of solo bass up in the x over region which builds into some lower tones and finally a beefy kick drum.

2. Tool: Prison Sex
This track is well recorded and the bass and drums are mixed very thick, but are full of nuance in both at the same time.

3. Primus: DMV
This is really punchy drums hits and has a lot of slappy stringy bass sounds all throughout the x over area. If any one note sticks out it's apparent.

4. Cake: The Distance
The bass is sort of funky low-fi but at the same time covers a lot of range and is fairly hot in the mix. Look for any one note that sticks out too much or is MIA.

5. Bass I Love You
I put this on there to see if I could blow up anyone's sub. Seriously it starts out with a mean 30hz note and also has notes at 25hz, 16hz and even 7hz. The 16hz separates the men from the boys. Ivan liked this one and thought maybe it was Danley demo material.




6. Bass Mekanik: Toccata and Fugue
A rip off of Bach's famous work injected with mad bass. Huge 16hz notes, ascending and descending scales and quick changes.

7. SoundGarden: Fresh Tendrils
There is a lot of bass work in this that is just not there on a sloppy or un-even system.

8. Rush: Tom Sawyer
If I need to explain this then it's probably not worth trying to explain anyway.

9. Mudvayne: Trapped In The Wake Of a Dream

This is a heavier bit of music but it has punchy drums and a thick down tuned B string bass that is really well played and recorded. The bass guitar is all over the place and the song has both lighter less cluttered sections and denser heavier sections with fast kick drum hits.

10. The Baroness: Wailing Wintry Wind
This ended up as one of the better tracks IMO not just for drums but for overall system performance. It's a slow build with a floor tom and various stereo guitar effects and the drums come in with a very well recorded live sound and build up on the toms and snare before finally kicking in with a lot of bass and very textured bass guitar work and fat drum sounds.


The movie tracks were in this order. I'll not explain these because most people reading this are familiar with them. I think I have these right...

1. THX Trailer: Amazing Life.
This and Bass I Love You were the real torture tracks in the line up. If a sub got overdriven or fell on it's face it was with one of those 2 tracks nearly every time.




2. Pearl harbor: 50cal machine gun blasts.

3. U571: depth charges

4. The Matrix Revolution: Neo talking to the machine

5. Kung Fu Panda: Thai Lung escape scene

6. The Incredible Hulk: Sonic Cannons
For some reason this just didn't have any real umph to it. Not like when I watch it at my place. It just seemed like it was lower in level than the others and would've needed about 6db more to be the same level as the others. Not sure what happened. That movie is very hot in the sub bass, but it just wasn't there on the disc.

7. Master and Commander: opening cannon battle.

8. Die Hard with a Vengeance: F22 attack scene.

9. War of The Worlds: Pod Emergence.
I felt like this one was similar to the Hulk and was just not near as hot as it is on disc. Still bassy but it didn't have that disgusting hotness in the ULF that it is legendary for, while M&C and Die Hard 4 did.
 
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