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Probably won't use the waterfall as I do not really understand what I am looking at when looking at the results?
But isn't the waterfall plot the exact tool you want to use to evaluate the effectiveness of traps?

See this very interesting acticle on the subject of EQualization using a BFD versus using Traps, where they use waterfalls to test the results (with comments by member Ethan Winer). Perhaps he could comment further here.

Wayne P. also talks about waterfalls here.

With great respect to your ears, I think with all the nice work you're putting into this project, it would be a nice idea to do some REW testing, so we can all evaluate along with you. :)

brucek
 

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Discussion Starter #42
No need to respect my ears, they are not that great!:R Thanks for the links, had a look at both, must say that as it is a little late here Ethan Winer's stuff did not get the attention it deserved. Wayne P's post in the second link does make some kind of sense and probably will make more sense after the second reading. As soon as I get the next two traps ready I will take some measurements using REW, will also do some waterfall plots after doing some more reading. Using REW is still a bit intimidating but am getting the hang of it!
 

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Here's another thread on waterfalls where I show my complete ignorance on the subject and where I learned a few things...... It seems quite important to set up the x and y axis and time. Waterfall is simply a response in slices of time after the main response to show how it decays....

brucek
 
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Fincave

Hay mate that is a doodle thanks, I’ll check into the pricing for the materials, I doubt it will cost much and the glue as well to stick the separate pieces together.:)

If I didn’t see it written mate, how many slabs of rockwool was needed to create the triangular shapes?
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Brucek: Thanks for the link again, will look into it and post results as soon as I have some.

JBL-4645: I did not even glue the separate pieces together, just placed then into the triangular shaped bag of which the rear seam was left open, the final triangle had to be cut into two and then the seam is done by hand. The bag is cut pretty much to exact size and so it is quite a tight fit. I purchased one packet of panels as the store where I bought them will not sell loose panels, some stores will though. Panels were 120cm by 60cm, cut into half giving 60cm by 60cm, these were then cut into four triangles giving a size of 60cm by 42,5cm by 42,5cm. I used seven 50mm panels and got eight pieces from each panel for a total of 56 triangles, am using 16 triangles for each trap that I am placing in the front corners and 12 triangles for the rear traps, giving a height of 80cm and 60 cm respectively. It would have been handy if the rockwoll slabs were thicker as then the cutting would have been less, the ones I am using can be had as thick as 130mm but were not in stock and would have cost considerably ore as transport costs wuld have been added. Total price for panels was 45€ and about 14€ for the black sheet material, not expensive at all, especially if they work.
 
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Fincave

Gotcha, thanks mate, did you spray paint them, not sure but from the look of the image it looks as if they where coloured, could have been the light on the camera?

Estimated cost for argument sakes?

PS. £45.00 UK pounds?
 
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Fincave

Hay mate, I’m going to put together a few Bob, that means money and get some (ridged rockwool) fabric makes sense!

I take it you have to glue the sides of it to stick to the walls, (liquid nails) you know that stuff that keeps it from falling off the wall!?

Thanks mate that’s all the information I need, thank you.:T
 

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Here's another thread on waterfalls where I show my complete ignorance on the subject and where I learned a few things...... It seems quite important to set up the x and y axis and time. Waterfall is simply a response in slices of time after the main response to show how it decays....
Indeed, waterfall plots are useful because they show ringing as well as the raw low frequency response. Excess ringing is just as damaging as peaks and nulls, and it's the main cause of what's euphemistically known as "one note bass," where every bass note sounds more or less the same regardless of its pitch. Besides the links already provided, this article on the RealTraps site explains how I use the ETF software, which is similar in function to REW:

www.realtraps.com/art_etf.htm

--Ethan
 

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In addition to using something for your before/after measurements (REW/ETF/Etc)- it might also be neat to use some real time Analyzer software - feeding it with the output of your preamp - I've seen posts where someone does this to watch the 'source' so they can visually confirm bass heavy/weak recordings.

Are you a PC or Mac user?
 

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Discussion Starter #51
In addition to using something for your before/after measurements (REW/ETF/Etc)- it might also be neat to use some real time Analyzer software - feeding it with the output of your preamp - I've seen posts where someone does this to watch the 'source' so they can visually confirm bass heavy/weak recordings.

Are you a PC or Mac user?
PC user, though must admit that often enough it seems as though the pc is using me! Using REW has been trying enough for me.
 

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Hang in there - you'll get it. It's worth the effort.

As for the RTA, it makes your life SO much easier when trying to find just the right place for seating/subs.

Bryan
 

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Discussion Starter #54
The traps are ready and I have purchased a new external soundcard. Unfortunately am too busy with work and a hundred other things that need taking care of and so have had no time to even listen to a few songs to see if I hear a difference. With a lot of luck I may have a couple of days off soon and may find the time to do some measurements. Will post all results here.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Finally have some measurements. Played around with REW this morning and set some filters on the BFD, the response is ok and the filters were set with the traps in room. I then removed the traps and took some more measurements leaving the filters engaged. I realsie that I should have also taken measurements without any filters and with and without the traps, something to do at a later date. Here are the results, the first two attachments are the filtered response withe the traps, the next two are without the traps.

Traps
ftg.jpg
ftw.jpg


No Traps
fntg.jpg
fntw.jpg
 
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