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Discussion Starter #1
Hi.

In a couple of weeks, I'll be completing my Sub-project described in this thread.

The room is described and depicted in the first post, and the final decision on driver and enclosure on the last 1½ page. Essentially a high quality 15" driver in a slot ported box tuned to 20Hz.

Rest of my gear is in my profile to the left. AVR may be the next thing to go, but it is musical like no Denon/Marantz/Technics has been able to come near so far (albeit I haven't auditioned any stuff for a couple of years, and I'm getting much more focused towards HT).

I need some advice or confirmation, that I'm making reasonable decisions on how to drive my new DIY-sub.

I am thinking that I will use a Behringer NU3000DSP to drive the sub. It will allow me to add the highPass filter to the sub as an integrated part of its amp duties.

With the very nice reviews and arguably a difficult room, the AntiMode 8033 will tame the performance and make it sweeeet... :cool:

  • Will this combo work well?
  • Am I overdoing it on the amp and can I simply stay with a nonDSP , assuming the AntiMode will keep things straight - or will the sub bottom out and die a horrible death?
  • Should I drop the AntiMode and use the EQ options in the amp from measurements made once and for all (rent a SPL-meter or mic for tuning in)?
  • Other suggestions or comments?

:dontknow:

TIA for your constructive input :wave:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
No - I'm still not quite sure what to do. Main part of my time has been spent on the "build the sub-box" part of the learning curve, given also that it had specific constaints. So I'm behind on reading properly up on this myself. As always it appears that you can spend days on end reading yourself into a complete info overload and analysis paralysis :reading: :dizzy:

Hence - a few helpful insights or guiding posts are surely still very welcome indeed! :yes:
 

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The Behringer DSP has 8 bands of eq where the anti mode has 3. How ever the anti mode has a "room equalizer" which does amplitude and time domain response adjustments and then you can add the 3 bands of eq on top of that.
Between the two pieces of equipment, there should EASILY be a way to make a response curve to fit your every dream.
On the other hand, you could START with the Behringer DSP and see how far it will take you in getting the response curve and sonic alignment you want and THEN if that's not sufficient add the antimode.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes - it is a good suggestion to start with only the Behringer. I have seriously considered that as well.

I guess it would still mean, that I would have to get some measurement gear to do the tuning in the first place. Would it also in that scenario be possible to take care of the rooms impact on the sound(?)

I have read, that the AntiMode is doing a VERY good job, that takes very skilled time and effort and a BFD to match (As per JohnM's review in this forum).

So I'm really unsure if the equalization alone will help me, in particular with room resonance that many are talking about, and end up using other devices like the BFD. And with the sub being hard-coupled to the end wall (drywall) I suspect that resonances will be an issue.

Would the reverse scenario (just the amp with no DSP and then the AntiMode) in reality be a better shot at excellent performance, and again, will I then need a specific HPF, or am I essentially OK not to kill the speaker with a 13Hz sound out of some movie...? WinISD does display some alarming cone excursion already at 16Hz it has passed 25mm... :sweat:

Guess I'm almost answering that part of my question myself :ponder: ... gotta stay with the DSP version

Still - will I really be able to get close to AntiMode(/BFD or similar) performance from the iNukes DSP alone? Or is the room correction beyond what you can do without the AntiMode or other similar gear?
 

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The Behringer will NOT give you the total "room" control that you get with the antimode. However, the Antimode is NOT going to give you the response curve control below 25Hz even though they advertise it corrects to 16Hz. The Behringer will allow you some correction down to 10Hz.
Either way DSP vs Antimode will always be a compromise of some kind.
A lot will depend on your listening environment. A "live" environment (lots of reflections and sibilance) will perform well with the Antimode's room control whereas a well damped room will perform well with the 8 DSP band adjustments.
Protecting the driver from over-excursion will have more to do with how you control the volume rather than how you adjust the frequency response curve.
For instance, I adjust my system to play a certain spl @ 20Hz and take whatever I get @ 10Hz. If the cone excursion is too large @ 10Hz or 30Hz I turn down the volume.
You will eventually find your personal balance between various frequencies and their spl ove time. Although I DO have good response down to 10Hz I don't place a lot of importance on it. A relatively flat frequency curve is great for music. A response curve with a 3db bulge between 25Hz and 50 Hz is great for movies.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
OK - so if you look at the room pictures in the first post of the linked thread above, then I would assume that the room is what you would call "live".

Not much damping:
  • carpeting (one 2,5*3m)
  • furniture (leather=less absorbant)
  • curtains (none - just glass floor to ceiling)
Maybe i can just as well get the AntiMode from the start based on that :spend: . First make reasonable corrections with the DSP, then let the AntiMode do the rest...

Oh yeah - and then the Movie setting will be really easy accessible with an 'effect-boost" :hsd:
 

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Yeah, I forgot you had pictures posted on the other thread. You have a "live" room. The Antimode will help with the standing waves and reflections but I'll bet you have voice and stringed instrument distortion from room modal conjugation.
I have some large windows and glass patio doors that exhibit the same problem. I need drapes to help control the reflections. I don't have the drapes. I HAVE hung blankets in the window and door areas and it DOES add sound control and improves intelligibility to voices and reality to the instruments. As they say, it makes for an "imposing sound stage".
Home Theater is like that though . . . . you make improvements to get to the next level of sound quality only to find you need to go yet one MORE level. LOL . . . . it's NOT a never ending journey though, either your wife or your wallet ends your search.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
. . . it's NOT a never ending journey though, either your wife or your wallet ends your search.
:rofl: Now THAT is true!!!

What is even worse - I actually HAD real curtains at one point, but 'lost' them to the vertical lamella curtains in the picture, but they carry no weight (nor real damping capabilities) :sad:

you make improvements to get to the next level of sound quality only to find you need to go yet one MORE level. LOL
Guess what - I was just now over at dspeakers site to see where I could order, and now they have a new and improved model poised for april launch at the same/similar price :yikes:

Anti-Mode 8033Cinema Features
➢ Measures room response with the included calibration microphone
➢ Single point calibration and optional wider area optimization
➢ Improved Anti-Mode correction with 28 Anti-Mode filters NEW!
➢ Wide correction range (16 – 160Hz NEW!)
➢ Two low-frequency enhancement (lift) modes (20Hz, 30Hz) with subsonic filter (10Hz)
➢ Subsonic filter can also be activated separately NEW!
➢ Smooth power on (with fade in) and power off NEW!
➢ Extruding and gold-plated RCA connectors (one input and one output) NEW!
➢ Scratch-resistant and finger-print-resistant structured matte black finish
➢ Works with 12VDC NEW! as well as 9VAC
➢ Dimensions 126 mm x 80 mm x 28 mm, Weight 230 g
Anti-Mode 8033Cinema will be available in April 2012! Suggested retail price 299€, US$395
So I guess that will be my new device - if I dont go completely insane between options before it launches :dumbcrazy:
 

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Well for God's sake don't go insane before you finish the project, take gobs of pictures, and tell us all how it turns out and tell us how it sounds.
A young kid down the street once suggested to me as I sat on the street curb moaning about reflected sounds caused by the special windows and doors I had designed into the house, that maybe HE could come up with an idea. A week later he came over with a wagon load of half gallon size milk cartons. He said if you fill these with water, he said jello would be better, and that if I piled enough of these in front of the windows and doors that THEY might stop the reflections. He must've had a couple hundred cartons ready to bring over. I told him my MOM would never allow it cause she's allergic to milk. He said OK and went home.
Moral of the story: drink your milk but don't save the cartons.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the story :bigsmile:

The (other) info above, and the fact that I got good and quick responses from DSPeaker (Anti-Mode company) to my questions waayyy after normal business hours won me over completely. :blush:m
I have now ordered the new Anti-Mode 8033Cinema, and I'm now just hoping for it to be here just in time for Easter (but it's a close call between that and their production schedule) :praying:

Also, a Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP has been shipped to me from Germany today (June was when they were expected in stock here in Danish shops :rubeyes:)

So now next tuesday is just too far away - really getting excited about this now :hyper:
 

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I don't think I've heard of anybody with that combination of EQing equipment. This is going to be interesting!
I've presently got a Peavey IPR 3000 and a Behringer DEQ2496 run with a Pioneer AVR with MCACC.
I'm waiting for all the cabling to bring the pieces together. I expect a minimum of two months experimentation before I fully grasp, first what CAN be done, and second how to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Look what the nice postman brought today - really quick from Germany :yay:

So I will be ready when the build is initiated next week :sn:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Sub build all but completed (only cosmetics and fake drawer fronts missing). Report and pictures will follow.

The Sub is wired with separate wires to each of the two sets of binding posts. Cabling is done so each of the coils can be fed from the Behringer amplifier s two channels.

But my question is this:

What should I use for the two inputs for the two channels?

One would be subwoofer out (I only have one output for that purpose currently)

How would I connect the other:

a) Center speaker out (it's a little less bass efficient than my R/L's)
b) Sub woofer out - i.e. split the single Surround reciever out into to two inputs
c) [Your alternative suggetion goes here]

Brgds,
Niels
 

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I vote for, "split the subwoofer out.

Alternately you can use the AUX L & R channel from an AVR to your NU3000 input and do the subwoofer EQ work with the DSP. cutting off everything above say 120Hz.
 
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