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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi Guys, recently I bought a 2nd PLV-Z200 for a dual projector rig, and I finally decided to take the plunge to paint my wall with a DIY formula (after years' of using just the off-white wall).

Last time when I exhaustively reading about the DIY paint formulas was years ago...hence I'd really appreciate it if you guys can help to educate me a bit as to what's on the scene now. Here is a quick brief of what I have and what I am thinking:
  • Projector: 2 x Sanyo PLV Z2000
  • Screen size: 150"
  • Screen distance to projector: 14'-8"
  • DIY paint requirements: white base (not grey, not silver), preferably high gain, roll on application (will consider spray on if the advantage is significant)
It'll be for a multi-purpose room, dark with no lights on while viewing. However, I'll be using the Omega DD3D filter/glasses systems for 3D contents (does not require silver screen) which would have ~80% light loss (on par with most active 3D projector system) hence a relatively high-gain paint will help...
I consider myself quite handy and don't mind going the spray route but does need to justify getting all the equipments and clearing wife/kids out of home for 2~3 days if that's what it takes...

If you could pls help to inform me with your recommended choices, I deeply appreciate it!
 

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For filling up such a big screen you need at least 1000 or more lumens. Are you sure that the 2 Sanyo can give you this amount of light?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
EDIT: I see now you're referring to calibrated lumen which I am still quite clueless about - I'll dig around and educate myself a bit more...

Z2000 is rated at 1200 ANSI lumens each (15000:1 contrast) hence in theory 2 will be at 2400 ANSI lumens - I am running 1 right now @ about 150" and people seems happy (2nd one on its way...)
 

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Hi Guys, recently I bought a 2nd PLV-Z200 for a dual projector rig, and I finally decided to take the plunge to paint my wall with a DIY formula (after years' of using just the off-white wall).

Last time when I exhaustively reading about the DIY paint formulas was years ago...hence I'd really appreciate it if you guys can help to educate me a bit as to what's on the scene now. Here is a quick brief of what I have and what I am thinking:
  • Projector: 2 x Sanyo PLV Z2000
  • Screen size: 150"
  • Screen distance to projector: 14'-8"
  • DIY paint requirements: white base (not grey, not silver), preferably high gain, roll on application (will consider spray on if the advantage is significant)
It'll be for a multi-purpose room, dark with no lights on while viewing. However, I'll be using the Omega DD3D filter/glasses systems for 3D contents (does not require silver screen) which would have ~80% light loss (on par with most active 3D projector system) hence a relatively high-gain paint will help...
I consider myself quite handy and don't mind going the spray route but does need to justify getting all the equipments and clearing wife/kids out of home for 2~3 days if that's what it takes...

If you could pls help to inform me with your recommended choices, I deeply appreciate it!
The killer is the 3D viewing since you take such a large hit in image brightness. Since you are using the Omega DD3D system you don't need to worry about retaining image polarity (don't know how they do that, but I'll take them at their word). This means a white screen is your best bet. The paint I would recommend is Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Series B20 interior Acrylic Latex Enamel in 'Extra White' and in satin finish. Be careful since there are 3 different SW paints that go by the name ProClassic, be sure to get Series B20. This paint will roll on and flatten out like a dream. The satin finish will give you a bit of extra gain. Most that have tried this paint have not had hot spotting with it, but a few have. We still haven't gotten to the bottom of that yet, but if you need the extra gain it is worth considering.

Glidden Premium GLN9000 interior latex in flat finish would be an alternate choice as well as Glidden Diamond 450 Titanium White in Velvet Matte finish (My Glidden Diamond 450 (White) Screen ). The Glidden Premium should be available from Home Depot and the Glidden Diamond 450 from Glidden Professional stores.

Since this seems to be your first time here at HTS I will assume that your previous DIY Screen mix research has been done elsewhere. In that case you should be aware that the high gain mixes they sell (Screen Goo and mixes off Ebay), as well as the mica-heavy mixes promoted by AVS DIY Screens, use inaccurate gain data. Screen Goo uses a non-standard gain testing method that produces figures way above the actual gain of their mixes, and the Ebay and AVS mixes are just wishful thinking. Do yourself a favor and read Gain and other confusing topics.
There is a price to be paid in image quality and viewing cone when using high gain mixes.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Thanks alot Harpmaker! Now we're talking.

Yes, I was mostly hanging out at AVS and these were what's on my late list (back in my PLV-Z1 times when I did try both grey & silver paint): Screen Goo plus bunch other DIY mixes at AVS (MississippiMan and else).

I think you nailed the issue, the concern is mostly about 3D viewing. I currently run 1 PLV-Z2000 at 150" on my off-white wall. At times I do wish it's brighter but was never able to motivate my to get it paint properly. When the decision is made to get a 2nd identical unit and go with dual route, I thought now there is even less worry about the wall since it'd be 2X as bright until I read about 3D and the typical light loss...

How would you compare SW B20 to Behr Ext. Ultra UPW #4850 (exterior paint)? I had something read this in my archive:
Behr Ext. Ultra UPW #4850
0 8 0 Lamp Black
0 1 1 Brown Oxide
0 0 1 Medium Yellow
forgot where I got it....

Anyhow, this is perfect - white, roll on and high(er) gain, do I just paint over my off-white wall or primer is needed?


EDIT: just finish reading "Painting the Perfect Screen for $100" by Evan Powell at ProjectorCentral.com (January 26, 2011) - I think I am sold on Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Smooth Enamel Satin Extra White, # B20 W 51 :D
 

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Thanks alot Harpmaker! Now we're talking.

Yes, I was mostly hanging out at AVS and these were what's on my late list (back in my PLV-Z1 times when I did try both grey & silver paint): Screen Goo plus bunch other DIY mixes at AVS (MississippiMan and else).
I have yet to find a screen paint or mix (DIY or commercial), other than here at HTS, that has accurate, documentable data for gain and color neutrality. AVS DIY Screens is the worst offender in this regard, their listed gain data is based on nothing except subjective judgements from looking at a screen - that simply won't work. They love to say how their screen mixes are "proven", but then offer no proof of that whatsoever except to show some screen photos ("screenies") which mean absolutely nothing; not only don't they tell the viewer what gain the screen is, they don't even tell if it is a white or gray screen. It sounds like you have experimented with the AVS mixes in the past so you are probably aware of the negative effects of too much mica in a mix. I guess some people will put up with those to get a brighter on-axis image. :huh:

I think you nailed the issue, the concern is mostly about 3D viewing. I currently run 1 PLV-Z2000 at 150" on my off-white wall. At times I do wish it's brighter but was never able to motivate my to get it paint properly. When the decision is made to get a 2nd identical unit and go with dual route, I thought now there is even less worry about the wall since it'd be 2X as bright until I read about 3D and the typical light loss...
Yes, most 3D systems really suck up lumens like a sponge.

How would you compare SW B20 to Behr Ext. Ultra UPW #4850 (exterior paint)? I had something read this in my archive:
Behr Ext. Ultra UPW #4850
0 8 0 Lamp Black
0 1 1 Brown Oxide
0 0 1 Medium Yellow
forgot where I got it....
That looks like one of the gray formulae that came from Tiddler at AVS. For your screen I wouldn't use any added tint at all, but use a straight white paint. The Behr 4850 would be a little (and I mean little) bit brighter white than the SW B20, but the SW paint in satin finish has more gain because it is glossier. The thing about the SW B20 is that it rolls on way better than the Behr paint and it flows to a smoother finish as well. If you decide to give the Behr 4850 a try anyway I would highly recommend NOT using the exterior 4850, but go with the interior 1850. The exterior paint has chemicals in it that most people don't want inside their homes, especially if there are babies or young children present.

Anyhow, this is perfect - white, roll on and high(er) gain, do I just paint over my off-white wall or primer is needed?
You could try painting a small portion of your wall to check how well the new paint sticks to the old, or to be safe just prime first. A primers job is to not only cover over the old paint color better than a finish paint would, but to also act as a type of adhesive ensuring the finish paint won't peel once it is dry.

EDIT: just finish reading "Painting the Perfect Screen for $100" by Evan Powell at ProjectorCentral.com (January 26, 2011) - I think I am sold on Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Smooth Enamel Satin Extra White, # B20 W 51 :D
Take that article with a large grain of salt... Again, they don't document how their gain figures are calculated. While SW B20 makes a nice screen, I highly doubt that it's gain is as high as this article says.
 

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EDIT: I see now you're referring to calibrated lumen which I am still quite clueless about - I'll dig around and educate myself a bit more...

Z2000 is rated at 1200 ANSI lumens each (15000:1 contrast) hence in theory 2 will be at 2400 ANSI lumens - I am running 1 right now @ about 150" and people seems happy (2nd one on its way...)
I think you may have a problem... the review of this PJ that I read makes it clear that the Z2000 is fairly dim and falls way short of the 1200 lumen spec. I'll quote a bit of it below:

Sanyo PLV-Z2000 Projector Brightness

The most significant complaint I have of the Z2000, is its brightness, which is below average. We haven't yet tested the new PT-AE2000U from Panasonic, whose predecessor, the PT-AE1000U, was last year's "King of Dim", of the 1080p projectors. The new PT-AE2000U is supposed to be a notch brighter. We shall see.

These measurements were all taken with the zoom lens close to the middle of its range. As a result, at shortest (wide angle) distance, the projector will measure about 25% brighter, and almost 25% dimmer in full telephoto (where the projector is the furthest possible from any given sized screen).

If I recall correctly, he Sanyo PLV-Z2000 is a little brighter than that Panasonic AE1000U, but that's about it. Everything else out there can produce more lumens, in its best mode, and for that matter, also in brightest mode. Here's how the Z2000 measures out:

Pure Cinema Mode: 363 lumens (lamp on full), 248 lumens in low lamp. That's about a 30% drop, which should be fairly consistent in any mode. 30% is also a larger drop than most projectors which drop 15-25%. For the other modes, I'll only report full lamp, and you can figure out low power if you desire.

Creative Cinema: Not much brighter, with 398 lumens

Brilliant Cinema: 572 lumens, pretty good, but then image quality isn't quite as good as Pure Cinema. Still, I imagine many buyers of the Z2000 will spend plenty of time watching in Brilliant Cinema mode, and still throroughly enjoy the experience.

Natural mode: 521 lumens (a good mode for general video viewing, as opposed to movies).

Living Room: At 324 lumens, this mode, the best of TV/HDTV viewing modes, was, surprisingly, not very bright.

Dynamic: At 487 lumens, this mode, was definitely very cool (bluish) as is typical of modes designed to cut through ambient light. Watchability was respectable, and can be improved with little loss of brightness

Vivid: This is the brightest mode of the PLV-Z2000, and its ugliest. I measured 601 lumens, but could never stand to watch anything on it. With some good adjustments, this could probably be turned into something significantly more watchable, without giving up more than maybe 50 or so lumens.

Even in full wide angle zoom, the projector never got close to its claimed 1200 lumens. Tsk, Tsk. (Of course, if it did, it would be brighter than average, not dimmer.)
Full review at http://www.projectorreviews.com/sanyo/plv-z2000/index.php

With a 14' 8" mounting distance I'm seeing the largest screen size is 147" giving you a screen with 64 square feet of surface. Even using the relatively bright Brilliant Cinema mode you are only getting 8.9 fc (foot candles) of projected image brightness; and that is with a new lamp. Multiply the fc value by the gain of the screen to get fL (foot lamberts). Adding the second Z2000 would in theory double this figure, but you will loose that as the lamp ages. This wouldn't be a problem except when you add in the loses of 3D. A 80% drop would leave you with only 1.78 fc; that is pretty dim.

At this point I would recommend getting a low cost (though accurate) light meter so you can tell EXACTLY how bright an image your PJ is projecting. This light meter is selling for $18.99 at Amazon (free shipping if the total order is $25 or more). I bought one of these 5 years ago and it is still working fine, is still using the same 9V battery it came with, and is as accurate as a ~$400 light meter I have designed for cinematography. Several other members here have gotten one of these as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Harpmaker: Thanks for the further insights - both good and bad news for me I suppose.

At +/-147", I am indeed using a setting tweaked from Brilliant Cinema mode hence my output would prob. at ~550 lumens in theory.

I suppose the good news is, with new SW paint + 2nd unit, 2D contents can finally be viewed at close to ideal brightness (assuming both bulbs average at 75% brightness, 2 x 8.9 fc x 75% = 13.35 fc). If SW paint gives slightly >1 gain then it's a bonus.

Bad news is, 3D will still be at ~ 3 fc (80% light loss is a moo)... Luckily my library so far is 95%+ 2D, (personally not a big 3D fan, although can't keep turning kids down on 3D anymore).

At this point, seems I have 2 options: the easier one would be reduce screen size down to 125" or even 100", hence gaining a bit of brightness. The more questionable one would be somehow retrofit the lamp with some sorta DIY super LED assembly... :bigsmile: Thanks for the tip about light meter, I will get one that you recommended.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Do you mean something like this??:)
Lol, yes! there are similar DIY on instructables and other sites (I can't post links yet)

Double checked last night my throw distance is at 15' from lens to face of wall, and ~145" in screen size -- apparently very close to the 2X zoom on PLV-Z2000 without realising it. Now with 2nd Z2000 coming I don't see myself changing (both) projector any time soon - so this may be my only choice:D.
 
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