Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Is Cream & Sugar Still one of the best N9 mixes out there ?

Is there a big difference in Gain between (C&S)N9 and a (off the shelf )N9

What is best Gain white paint ??

Thanks!
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Is Cream & Sugar Still one of the best N9 mixes out there ?
Yes, C&S™ Ultra is one of the best high gain, wide viewing angle N9 solutions available. However, if time or money is short then a N9 Valspar paint in eggshell finish probably would be a close second choice. We have not compared these two side-by-side and we should, but we do this stuff as a hobby and of late Mech and I have had little time to do so.

Is there a big difference in Gain between (C&S)N9 and a (off the shelf )N9
Honestly, this is very subjective. What one person might call a "big difference" other might think is trivial. In numbers, C&S™ Ultra has an on-axis gain of about 1.0; a flat N9 paint would have around 0.8. More about this on the next answer.

What is best Gain white paint ??
Literally the highest gain white paint would be one in glossy finish. This would make a terrible screen because it would hot spot like crazy. The less glossy the finish the less the hot spotting would be, but the lower the on-axis gain would be as well. This is why we usually recommend only using flat or matte paints as screen paint - most paints in higher gloss finishes produce too much hot spotting (except for the Valspar eggshell).

Another problem is color neutrality. Most white paints are not neutral in color and in fact are quite "warm" in that they push reds and yellows. This can usually be corrected by calibrating the PJ, but doing so may cost you some lumens.

The best white paint we have found is Glidden Professional Diamond 450 No VOC in Velvet Matte finish. This paint is neutral in color and one of the brighter whites available. The only problem is that it can be hard to find and is fairly expensive. Even though it is called a "matte" finish it has a similar gloss level as Valspar paints in eggshell finish. While we haven't tested this paint for gain I would expect it to be slightly above 1.0 and yet have a wide viewing cone.

The next white paint I would recommend is Glidden Premium GLN9000 from Home Depot in flat finish. This paint would have less gain that the first one because it has less gloss, but it has been measured as having the same brightness and neutrality as the Glidden Professional. It is also very inexpensive.

No problem. :T
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thank you very much Harpmaker !!

I think i might try either White or "C&S ultra" , I hope i can find the excact paints needed for this mix .

Is the "Black Widow Ultra" also a N9 mix.

I might try making a frame which i can flip-over the Sitra board , one for night viewing ,white or N9 and maybe a darker version for ambient light viewing ?
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
I think i might try either White or "C&S ultra" , I hope i can find the excact paints needed for this mix .

Can't seem to find any "Valspar" paint here in Quebec Canada ??:hissyfit:
The Behr #1850 paint used to be very close to the Valspar, but I don't think it is available in CA either! Drat! What latex paint brands are available to you? Please provide links to them if you can. I'll try to find data sheets for them and compare them to the Valspar paint.

Is the "Black Widow Ultra" also a N9 mix.
That is a good question and one I can't answer just yet. Mech tried mixing the new AAA-F with a white paint and got a N8.5 while another member here mixed it to his brand of white paint and got a N9.4. I got some samples of white paint I'll be mixing with AAA-F to try to find out what is going on.

I might try making a frame which i can flip-over the Sitra board , one for night viewing ,white or N9 and maybe a darker version for ambient light viewing ?
That would work, but gray screens work will in the dark too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
The Behr #1850 paint used to be very close to the Valspar, but I don't think it is available in CA either! Drat! What latex paint brands are available to you? Please provide links to them if you can. I'll try to find data sheets for them and compare them to the Valspar paint.


That is a good question and one I can't answer just yet. Mech tried mixing the new AAA-F with a white paint and got a N8.5 while another member here mixed it to his brand of white paint and got a N9.4. I got some samples of white paint I'll be mixing with AAA-F to try to find out what is going on.


That would work, but gray screens work will in the dark too.

There are Home Depot's here, so i think i have access to "Glidden" and "Behr",.. we have "Sherwin William's" stores also .

Yes ,i remember someone reading N9.4 for the Black Widow Ultra also ??

My original thread is : "Where do I begin" which has (Pictures of room) that will be painted darker.

Thanks so much for your advise and experience !!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
519 Posts
What is best Gain white paint ??

Thanks!
I have only tested 5 or 6 different brands (i believe Harp and Mech have tested many many more..).

From my little experience, i would say definately this one:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-screens/57173-ots-neutral-gray-universal-tint-codes-known-finishes-2.html

(spectro readings)

And here are the reflective readings.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/manufactured-screens/67395-adeo-screens.html

(post 5)

I believe its gain is 1.
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
There are Home Depot's here, so i think i have access to "Glidden" and "Behr",.. we have "Sherwin William's" stores also .
A N9 that Home Depot can make is the True Value color "Winter Mist". Don't know if you can get the Behr #1850 in CA anymore or not, the last I heard people were having trouble.

A decent Sherwin-Williams N9 is "Ice Cube". In SW paints I would use their "Duration" paint in matte finish.

Thanks so much for your advise and experience !!
Glad to (hopefully) be of help. :T
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
A N9 that Home Depot can make is the True Value color "Winter Mist". Don't know if you can get the Behr #1850 in CA anymore or not, the last I heard people were having trouble.

A decent Sherwin-Williams N9 is "Ice Cube". In SW paints I would use their "Duration" paint in matte finish.


Glad to (hopefully) be of help. :T
Can SW Ice Cube ,be a replacement for the (Valspar that i cant get here) in the C&S Ultra mix?
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Can SW Ice Cube ,be a replacement for the (Valspar that i cant get here) in the C&S Ultra mix?
No, the base for C&S™ Ultra needs to be as white as possible with just a hint of magenta added to give mix color neutrality after the Liquitex BASICS Silver is added.

The base color you want for making C&S™ Ultra using Behr paint from Home Depot is 5/384 oz. of Magenta tint added to a QUART of #1850 (or equivalent). We don't have a base color formula for SW paints yet, but I'll try to find one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
OK Harpmaker , i purchased the 16oz of liquidex Basics Silver and will check
Our local HD to see if they bave the Berh paint you mentioned Just to be sure ,What finish do i need ?

Thank you !!!!!!
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
OK Harpmaker , i purchased the 16oz of liquidex Basics Silver and will check
Our local HD to see if they bave the Berh paint you mentioned Just to be sure ,What finish do i need ?

Thank you !!!!!!
No problem, sorry I'm not on the forum as much as I used to be (I hope that will change soon).

The Behr #1850 is a manufacturer code for the paint that denotes the base color and finish all in one. Behr #1850 is a white base with a flat enamel finish that is about the same finish as the old Valspar Ultra Premium interior latex in flat enamel finish; they both provided just a bit extra gloss over a flat finish.

I see on homedepot.ca that #1850 paint is no longer listed, but your store may have some. :huh: What Behr is now pushing is their ULTRA paint which has the code number #1750. You can use this paint in a pinch. but people have had more problems rolling it without getting roller marks than when using the #1850; perhaps thinning with a bit more water would work. :dontknow:


http://www.homedepot.ca/product/premium-plus-ultra-interior-flat-enamel-paint-primer-in-one-946ml/924124

I haven't used the CIL paints HD sells so I can't recommend or not recommend them.

You can use just a can of the #1850 or #1750 without adding any color to it and still get a pretty good C&S™ Ultra screen, but the result will be more color neutral if you have the store add 5/384 ounce of Magenta tint to the quart of #1850. The HD tint code for Magenta used to be "V", but that may have changed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I really appreciate all your help !!

Just got back from HD . The tint is now VL, I asked why the L and the saleswomen thinks its more concentrated ???
Color does not say Magenta , ...says Violet ??? # (46914Z).

I will take pics from H.D of Base and Tint in a few days and post them here just to be sure I have everything right ok

And 5/384 means 5 drops out of 384? Right ?

Thanks Harpmaker !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
After calling Behr Canada we can no longer get the UPW in the Flat Enamel finish ,...only Eggshell or Flat (Flat Enamel being in between).

Here we have 1050-Flat or 2050-Eggshell. I've read the Eggshell hotspots!!


...I guess i might have to drive to burlington for a Lowe's and get the New Valspar paint ?
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Just got back from HD . The tint is now VL, I asked why the L and the saleswomen thinks its more concentrated ???
Color does not say Magenta , ...says Violet ??? # (46914Z).
OK, that is weird, the colors violet and magenta are not the same; magenta has both violet and red in it. :scratch:

I will take pics from H.D of Base and Tint in a few days and post them here just to be sure I have everything right ok
That may work, but it's problematic getting true colors from a photo of a color. The best thing to do is to send me a 1" painted sample to measure with my spectro.

And 5/384 means 5 drops out of 384? Right ?
There are 384 drops per fluid ounce of tint in HD's tinting machines. Lowe's uses 768 drops per fl. oz. and most other paint stores using the old manual tinting system use 96 drops per fl. oz. (they sometimes call 1/96th fl. oz. a half-drop).

After calling Behr Canada we can no longer get the UPW in the Flat Enamel finish ,...only Eggshell or Flat (Flat Enamel being in between).

Here we have 1050-Flat or 2050-Eggshell. I've read the Eggshell hotspots!!
It sounds like your best bet is to simply use the UPW 1050 in flat finish. The C&S™ Ultra made with that paint will have slightly less gain, but you would literally need to do a side-by-side comparison to tell the difference, most of the gain from C&S™ Ultra comes from the BASICS Silver.


...I guess i might have to drive to burlington for a Lowe's and get the New Valspar paint ?
I wouldn't bother if it's a long trip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Ok now that i've found out that Ontario has Lowes stores , i called one to see if they had "Valspar Ultra Premium Super Flat Finish" ,.. They dont, but they have "Valspar Ultra Interior Flat "

They have Base A instead of Base 1, which is for adding tint.

Would this work ??
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Ok now that i've found out that Ontario has Lowes stores , i called one to see if they had "Valspar Ultra Premium Super Flat Finish" ,.. They dont, but they have "Valspar Ultra Interior Flat "

They have Base A instead of Base 1, which is for adding tint.

Would this work ??
Valspar Ultra has replaced the Valspar Ultra Premium, and a finish called Super Flat has replaced the Flat Enamel, but it can be hard to find the Super Flat since I think Lowe's finally determined it was one of the stupidest finish names in the world (most would think it was flatter than a flat finish and not more glossy). This whole replacement mess with Valspar Ultra is the main reason we have gone to recommending using Valspar Signature paint in matte finish (which while a bit more expensive has the same gloss as the old flat enamel).

Valspar Ultra in flat finish would be much like Behr UPW #1050 in gloss rating.

Yes, Base A is the same as the old Base 1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
I completelly missed the Signature recommendation with all the confusion and bought the one i mentioned.
Ordered it over the phone and sister from toronto is picking it up before she leaves for my place in Montreal !

(most would think it was flatter than a flat finish and not more glossy).

Yes your right , i bought the flat because it thought it would be LESS flat than Super Flat !!!

OK , so now i need the "Signature matte finish" ,base A with the tint 115-.67.

I'm gonna get this right eventually Harpmaker !!!

Thanks
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
I completelly missed the Signature recommendation with all the confusion and bought the one i mentioned.
Ordered it over the phone and sister from toronto is picking it up before she leaves for my place in Montreal !

(most would think it was flatter than a flat finish and not more glossy).

Yes your right , i bought the flat because it thought it would be LESS flat than Super Flat !!!

OK , so now i need the "Signature matte finish" ,base A with the tint 115-.67.

I'm gonna get this right eventually Harpmaker !!!

Thanks
If you got the Valspar Ultra in flat it will still work fine unless you literally need all the gain you can get without hot spotting.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top