Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'd like to get some advice from the DIY screen folks here. I'm building a home theatre. I've got the audio handled (the acoustics worked out, panels and speakers all set, etc.) No problems there. But now it's time to work on the video side of things, and I've got a few questions.

My projector is a Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 8350. It will be positioned 10.5 ft from the wall onto which it will project.

The maximum viewable portion of the wall is 85" x 145" (obviously I will probably not project onto that entire area.)

The room can be in total darkness as required, so ambient light will never be an issue.

Prior to painting, some drywall repair will be done (to remove two sockets and one patch of previous damage), so if needs be I can get any other defects mended.

Given all of the above, what paint would you recommend for said wall? I will be hiring a contractor for this (have used him before and can trust him to follow exact directions), so I'm hoping that the mixing/application process can be boiled down to clear instructions (I'm afraid I can't just point him at the forums and say "go read that for a few days." ;))

Mixes, ready-made solutions, what would you'd recommend?

Thanks!
-Rob

P.S. Please let me know if I forgot any important details!
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Hey Rob, welcome to the forum! :wave:

You forgot to tell us one of the most important aspects of your home theater and that is the color and lightness of the walls, ceiling and floor. If the walls and ceiling (and to a more limited extent the floor) are white or a light color (any color) you can have ambient light problems even with no other lights on in the room when viewing except the PJ since the light from the screen will reflect off those surfaces and back onto the screen causing a loss of image contrast and color depth. The closer the walls and ceiling are to the edges of your screen area the more bounce-back you will have.

From a quick look at the projection calculator at projector central it seems that the largest image size you can have with the 8350 mounted 10 1/2 feet from the wall is 108" (53" x 94") diagonal assuming a 16:9 aspect ratio. This is well within your stipulated 85" x 145" wall area.

The good news is that you have a bright PJ which will be producing an image brightness of at least 29 fL (normal recommended image brightness is 16 fL). This allows you some room to potentially compensate for lighter color room surfaces by using a gray screen. More good news is that at these fL levels you don't have to use a reflectively enhanced screen mix and can use a regular OTS (off-the-shelf) paint in either a white or a gray. We can make more detailed paint choices after we know the approximate lightness of your HT room surfaces.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the prompt response.

Right, so colors. The walls are a medium gray (probably around #BBBBBB so). The ceiling is off-white on the side of gray (#EFEFEF-ish). Carpet is roughly (*very* roughly) #996600.

Now depending on how the acoustics work out I might end up covering the side walls in acoustic tiling. If that's the case, then expect dark grey/black for all the walls. I wish I could say for certain whether or not I'll be putting them up, but I haven't had enough free time in the evenings to finish figuring that stuff out. (I've been spending all my evenings with CARA, a tape measure, and mics...)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I'm a little confused about the projection size figures you posted. While I was able to reproduce the figures via the tool you linked to, the spec. sheet for the 8350 seems to indicate that I can do a lot bigger even at 10.5'. Am I missing something?

Edit: Ok, after playing with the calculator a bit more, and after re-doing some measurements, it looks like with the maximum throw distance the room will allow me (a hair under 11.5') the absolute biggest the calculator says I can do is 117" diagonal (57 x 102"). That still gives me 25 fL. Dunno if that changes anything...
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Thanks for the prompt response.

Right, so colors. The walls are a medium gray (probably around #BBBBBB so). The ceiling is off-white on the side of gray (#EFEFEF-ish). Carpet is roughly (*very* roughly) #996600.

Now depending on how the acoustics work out I might end up covering the side walls in acoustic tiling. If that's the case, then expect dark grey/black for all the walls. I wish I could say for certain whether or not I'll be putting them up, but I haven't had enough free time in the evenings to finish figuring that stuff out. (I've been spending all my evenings with CARA, a tape measure, and mics...)
#BBBBBB is N7.5 on the Munsell Gray Scale. You could paint your screen area with Valspar Ultra Premium interior latex in eggshell finish that has been tinted to match Glidden Master Palette 'Veil' and get a nice screen extremely close to this same color. You probably don't need to go this dark if you aren't going to have any lights on during viewing so a lighter gray would be the same paint tinted to match Behr 'Silver Screen' which is #CFCFCF (N8.3).

I'm a little confused about the projection size figures you posted. While I was able to reproduce the figures via the tool you linked to, the spec. sheet for the 8350 seems to indicate that I can do a lot bigger even at 10.5'. Am I missing something?
Here is what I am getting (except the size is now 107" diag., must be round-off error :dontknow:):




Edit: Ok, after playing with the calculator a bit more, and after re-doing some measurements, it looks like with the maximum throw distance the room will allow me (a hair under 11.5') the absolute biggest the calculator says I can do is 117" diagonal (57 x 102"). That still gives me 25 fL. Dunno if that changes anything...
With the larger screen and dimmer image I would now recommend the Valspar Ultra Premium interior latex in eggshell finish tinted to match Behr 'Silver Screen' as the darkest gray to use to get the most image contrast and color depth and for a lighter gray use the same paint tinted to match Glidden Master Palette 'Snowfield' (#DDDDDD / N8.8) if you prefer image brightness instead of image contrast and color depth.

In either case which paint to use comes down to user preference. The darker gray screen will have richer, deeper colors and more image contrast at the cost of overall image brightness. The Lighter gray screen will be the inverse having a overall brighter image at the cost of lower image contrast and more faded colors. There will not be a day-and-night difference between them though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the recommendations.

I did a bit of review-reading, and I'm a little concerned by a number of negative reviews about the Valsper paint that you mentioned. It seems that some folks have trouble with the paint peeling when it's been applied on top of existing paint!

Do you have any other recommendations? I'm more a fan of the "higher contrast, deeper blacks" approach, since the room will be completely blacked out during viewing and I don't think I'll need maximum brightness.

Thanks!
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Thanks for the recommendations.

I did a bit of review-reading, and I'm a little concerned by a number of negative reviews about the Valsper paint that you mentioned. It seems that some folks have trouble with the paint peeling when it's been applied on top of existing paint!
I believe I saw those negative reviews and while I won't say it could never happen, I have never, first-hand, heard of a case where Valspar Ultra Premium has peeled. My guess would be that those that had that problem painted directly over a glossy or semi-gloss paint, or perhaps even over a plastic laminate of some kind, without priming first. Primer isn't paint even though it looks like it; the primary purpose of a primer is to seal whatever is being primed and to provide a "grippy" surface for regular paint to stick to.

You should be able to use the colors I recommended to you in other brands of paint as well, just choose one you like. :T If using other brands of paint I would stick with a flat or matte finish paint. I would not recommend using the Behr ULTRA paint (a friend of mine DID have a peeling problem with it) unless that is all that is available to you.

Do you have any other recommendations? I'm more a fan of the "higher contrast, deeper blacks" approach, since the room will be completely blacked out during viewing and I don't think I'll need maximum brightness.

Thanks!
I think the Behr 'Silver Screen' is a good color choice for you (Glidden 'Universal Gray' would also work, it's about the same shade). The darkest I would go is the N7.5 Glidden 'Veil', but you really shouldn't need that unless you have ambient light.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Right, so Behr Silver Screen. Should I mix it with anything (and if so, in what proportions?) or just use it as is?

Also, what about Black Widow? Is it suitable for covering a whole wall? The comparison pictures made it look quite nice indeed!

I figured on having the painter use a sprayer to get the smoothest finish possible -- does that change anything?

Thanks!
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Right, so Behr Silver Screen. Should I mix it with anything (and if so, in what proportions?) or just use it as is?
Just use it as-is. The only reason to add anything to a neutral gray paint is to increase the gain of the mix to make up for either an under-powered PJ or a screen size that is really too big for the PJ being used. You're HT doesn't fit in either of those categories.

Also, what about Black Widow? Is it suitable for covering a whole wall? The comparison pictures made it look quite nice indeed!
Black Widow™ is a great screen mix, but it was designed back when many PJ's had considerably less lumens than they do today. You could use it rather than a simple neutral gray paint, but you don't need to since you have plenty of image brightness.

The thing about reflectively enhanced screens, DIY or commercial, is that the same ingredients that boost screen gain also have some negative effects as well. Whenever you put what are in essence little tiny mirrors into a paint it is possible that if the projected image is too bright the image can appear to be grainy. We have only had a few (2 or 3) people complain of that when using BW™ and I believe we traced the problem down to excessive image brightness.

I figured on having the painter use a sprayer to get the smoothest finish possible -- does that change anything?

Thanks!
Not that I can think of.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
The only reason I asked about Black Widow was since the projector will be at the upper end of its zoom range (so as to get the maximum screen size that I can for the throw that I've got), and I figured that might help make up for it.

I think it came out to 23 fL in the worst case -- but that's assuming that I run the projector at its full brightness. I figure that with Eco Mode (or whatever it's called) I might end up lower than that, hence the need for an enhanced paint like Black Widow.

But hey, if you say Silver Screen is good that's good enough for me. You guys know way more about this than I will ever likely know! (Plus, I'm not averse to getting the wall re-painted if it turns out not to be satisfactory...)

Thanks again!
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
With your PJ mounted at 11.5' and going with a 117-118" screen means your lens is wide open and the only adjustment is zooming the lens to get a smaller and brighter image. However, I manually calculated image brightness levels instead of going with the PJC Calc figures and if you use Eco mode and Cinema mode that will drop you down to about 10.5 fL (preferred viewing range is 12 to 16 fL). The PJC Calc seems to be based on using the bright lamp setting and Living Room mode with the 8350. They say colors are very good in this mode. BTW going from full lamp to Eco mode drops brightness 22%.

'Silver Screen' will work well if you use Eco and Living Room modes, but if you choose to use Cinema Mode I would recommend going with 'Snowfield'.

Black Widow™ would give you an image brightness comparable to 'Silver Screen', but produce a darker screen that will absorb more ambient light. Since you won't have any (or minimal) ambient light Black Widow™ really isn't the answer for your HT. If you really want to try a reflectively enhanced mix then think about Scorpion™ or C&S™ Ultra.

Plus, I'm not averse to getting the wall re-painted if it turns out not to be satisfactory.
This is great. :T I think painting your screen with an OTS neutral gray paint first will probably work well for you, but it's nice to know that you are willing to repaint if you think the image needs help in one aspect for another.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
If you think I don't need an enhanced mix, I won't use one. No problem here.

Regarding the different modes, I'm not really to worried about bulb life. I mean... I don't relish replacing a bulb, but I'm getting a spare along with the projector (and they're not too expensive anyways), so I'd much rather deal with a possible replacement than have too dark of an image.

With respect to Snowfield, who makes that paint? I assume that it's a lighter paint than Snow Screen (since you're recommending it for use with the dimmer modes), right?
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
If you think I don't need an enhanced mix, I won't use one. No problem here.

Regarding the different modes, I'm not really to worried about bulb life. I mean... I don't relish replacing a bulb, but I'm getting a spare along with the projector (and they're not too expensive anyways), so I'd much rather deal with a possible replacement than have too dark of an image.

With respect to Snowfield, who makes that paint? I assume that it's a lighter paint than Snow Screen (since you're recommending it for use with the dimmer modes), right?
'Silver Screen' is a Behr color and 'Snowfield' is a Glidden color. You should be able to have just about any brand of paint tinted to match those colors, the formulae should be in the stores color-matching computer.

Yea, 'Snowfield' is a slightly lighter gray than 'Silver Screen'. Both of these colors (I had them made in Valspar Ultra Premium at Lowe's) are quite neutral in color which means your screen won't change the color of the image being shot on it by the PJ. Having a truly neutral screen makes it easier to calibrate the PJ properly too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
One final question: is there any particular reason to use Valspar Ultra Premium tinted to match Silver Screen? Or are there other paints that would be good to tint to Silver Screen? Does it matter?
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
One final question: is there any particular reason to use Valspar Ultra Premium tinted to match Silver Screen? Or are there other paints that would be good to tint to Silver Screen? Does it matter?
I tend to use Valspar Ultra Premium (for both screen mixes and as a general paint around the house) because I have had a fair amount of experience with it and it has always worked well for me. It is relatively inexpensive and available from a chain (Lowe's) that is very prevalent in my area. Lowe's has the most accurate paint-tinting machines I know of (they can add the different color tints in 1/768th ounce increments). That said, just about any brand of paint should be tintable to match Behr 'Silver Screen' including major brands like Sherwin-Williams, Benjamin Moore, Pratt & Lambert etc.

The only name-brand paint I would recommend against is Behr Premium Plus ULTRA, the older Behr Premium Plus (the stuff that ISN'T advertized as paint and primer in one) has worked fine for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Great.

I'll give Valspar Ultra Premium and Silver Screen tinting a shot. I'll send the instructions to the contractor today, but it will take a while before I can report back. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thanks for all the help!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Hello everyone. I am a long time reader but decided to join to get an answer to my predicament.

I did not want to create a new thread on the Epson 8350 as there are already two, I hope I am not thread jacking.

I just purchased an Epson 8350 and would like to create my own screen. I built a new wall for the image to be projected onto, so I would like to paint the screen on the wall.

The projector will be mounted to the ceiling with a 4 inch hang. No ceiling obstructions. It will be mounted 11.5-13.5 feet away from said screen. Looking to do a 100" to 108" 16:9 screen

The walls will be a deep gold color with a white ceiling. Floor is carpet, its two tone gold and burgandy

What gray paint should I use. I am new to this so please let me know if I omitted anything necessary info. Thank you.
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Hi LWest, welcome to the forum! :wave:

You will find a lot of info in the existing 8350 threads and you could pretty much extrapolate your screen needs from that, but never be hesitant to ask questions. :T

With your PJ in Living Room mode and full lamp you would be getting between 24 and 19 fL of image brightness with a 108" screen, the difference being due to PJ mounting distance. Going to the smaller 100" wouldn't make a perceptible difference in image brightness. If you want to use Cinema mode and low lamp your brightness will take a hit and be in the 10 fL range. So a lot depends on what modes you use.

If you would have minimal ambient light in the room during viewing you could use the same paints I recommended to ThinkRob, namely Behr 'Silver Screen' (a ~N8.3 neutral gray) or Glidden 'Snowfield' (a ~N8.5 neutral gray). These are paint COLORS and you could use about any paint brand you like. 'Silver Screen' will give you a bit more contrast and richer colors than 'Snowfield', but it will be a ever so slightly dimmer image than you will get with 'Snowfield'.

If you want to use the dimmer modes on your PJ then I would recommend thinking about using our reflectively enhanced mix called Cream&Sugar™ Ultra. This mix is a N9.2 (almost white), but does offer a bit of image contrast enhancement compared to a true white paint; however, it is designed for no ambient light viewing,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Hi LWest, welcome to the forum! :wave:

You will find a lot of info in the existing 8350 threads and you could pretty much extrapolate your screen needs from that, but never be hesitant to ask questions. :T

With your PJ in Living Room mode and full lamp you would be getting between 24 and 19 fL of image brightness with a 108" screen, the difference being due to PJ mounting distance. Going to the smaller 100" wouldn't make a perceptible difference in image brightness. If you want to use Cinema mode and low lamp your brightness will take a hit and be in the 10 fL range. So a lot depends on what modes you use.

If you would have minimal ambient light in the room during viewing you could use the same paints I recommended to ThinkRob, namely Behr 'Silver Screen' (a ~N8.3 neutral gray) or Glidden 'Snowfield' (a ~N8.5 neutral gray). These are paint COLORS and you could use about any paint brand you like. 'Silver Screen' will give you a bit more contrast and richer colors than 'Snowfield', but it will be a ever so slightly dimmer image than you will get with 'Snowfield'.

If you want to use the dimmer modes on your PJ then I would recommend thinking about using our reflectively enhanced mix called Cream&Sugar™ Ultra. This mix is a N9.2 (almost white), but does offer a bit of image contrast enhancement compared to a true white paint; however, it is designed for no ambient light viewing,

Wow! Thanks! That is really helpful. Thank you again. As the OP stated, I am not opposed to having to repaint to get the perfect screen color.

I guess my only question now is, say I would like to view in Living Room mode w/ some ambient light present, should I go with a reflectively enhanced mixture? Or possibly the Black Widow you mentioned above? I'd like to be able to view sports in a low light environment and movies in the dark. How would I be able to make a compromise so that it looks equally good in both lighting enviroinments? Would Silver Screen get me there or is that not even possible?
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top