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Hey all, just replaced my DIY projector. It was on for 24 hours a day for 5 years and it still works, same bulb. Is that crazy or what. I couldnt wait for bright LED projectors to be a reasonable purchase any longer, and the laser projectors have serious lag for gaming

Anywho. I purchased the HD33. Which is sweet as all . Got it hooked up to the PC for 3D skyrim, HD movies and what not. I am using a 140" projection

Problem is the HD33 is much brighter than my old DIY( I had to turn it down) so the white wall is not cutting it in the black department.

I read a little about the BW, but that thread is like 115 pages long . sounds like that is what I need, But not completely sure. I have also considered the Proscreen grey high contrast screen material. any recommendations?

Also Is the formula exactly whats on the first post or has there been some changes or variations since 2008 that I should know about.

Thanks. Great forum by the way:T
 

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Hi twisteddman, welcome to HTS! :wave:

A few months after Black Widow™ was introduced to the public there was a change made in the aluminum paint used, but the formula has not changed since that time. The reason the change was made was due to difficulty in finding the Henry 558 aluminum paint (and the fact it had to be purchased by the gallon) and the mix tended to change color toward yellow. The Auto Air Aluminum-fine has proven to be quite stable in color.

The first photos in the main BW™ threads used test panels made by Wbassett using yet another water-based aluminum paint which was replaced about a month before the introduction of BW™ again because it was hard to find (sometimes impossible depending on your state laws).

Please don't concern yourself about the early changes in aluminum paint, they all performed EXTREMELY close in testing and were for all intents interchangeable. If anything, the Auto Air Aluminum-fine has the smallest aluminum flakes of the 3 and offers the best performance. The BW™ formula has not changed since we started using the AAA-F, the reason is simple, you don't fix what isn't broken. :T

With a 140" diagonal 16:9 screen you should be getting about 14.5 fc of image brightness using Cinema mode and lamp on high. Lower the lamp to Standard mode and you drop down to around 11.3 fc. There are brighter modes on the HD33, but not by much. Since you are saying the image is very bright I can only assume that your previous DIY PJ was dimmer than this and you are used to a relatively dim image. There is nothing wrong with that, acceptable image brightness is a very subjective thing.

You could give BW™ a try right out of the gate or you could try using an OTS (off the shelf) neutral gray paint first. The thing about a reflectively enhanced mix like BW™ is that it will show up any imperfections in the painted surface. The OTS grays pretty much don't, so your wall condition may effect your choice of paint.

How far are you away from the screen during viewing?

I have no experience with the ProScreen HCG material, but I would only think about going to the work and expense of building a screen with it if your wall simply isn't suitable as a screen. An OTS gray could match the performance of the ProScreen material.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks for your quick response. So the BW is more for making it brighter without losing the blacks? What about the active 3D is there any consideration for screen type for this, and what is the trade off for 2D?

I am about 9- 10 ' from the screen. As far as brightness I was judging its too brightness on it being brighter than my rear projection, monitor and roomates led tv. For sure its way brighter than the DIY.

Yeah my wall is plastered with texture and would need to be smoothed or have something smooth applied which is why I was looking at screen mat. The high contrast grey is $124 for 140" screen

Whats the cost for BW? Is there a material thats easy to put up to spray it on?
 

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Thanks for your quick response. So the BW is more for making it brighter without losing the blacks?
Yes. BW™ is a true N7.5 neutral gray, but a projected image will appear like it was reflected from a N8 or lighter neutral gray.

What about the active 3D is there any consideration for screen type for this, and what is the trade off for 2D?
Usually projectors lose up to 75% of their 2D image brightness when showing 3D, but the HD33 seems to be able to compensate for that a good bit from the review I read of it. BW™ would not work well with a passive 3D system, but active systems are fine as long as the image brightness is suitable to the viewer. With the HD33 I don't think there is any tradeoff.

I am about 9- 10 ' from the screen.
I thought you might be close to the screen for gaming. The only caveat we have heard about using BW™ is that when viewing bright HD material up close a few have reported seeing some graininess in the image. We haven't been able to reproduce that effect ourselves, but we feel folks should be aware of the possibility.

As far as brightness I was judging its too brightness on it being brighter than my rear projection, monitor and roomates led tv. For sure its way brighter than the DIY.
That's a head-scratcher. :scratch: From the review I read at projectorcentral the HD33 with a 140" screen should be dimmer than all of those except for the DIY PJ. :huh:

Yeah my wall is plastered with texture and would need to be smoothed or have something smooth applied which is why I was looking at screen mat. The high contrast grey is $124 for 140" screen

Whats the cost for BW? Is there a material thats easy to put up to spray it on?
I'm not aware of any sheet good that will make a 140" 16:9 screen without using more than a single sheet. Your best bet is beginning to look like the commercial screen material after all.

The cost of BW™ for a 140" screen would be about $56 (you would need to make a double batch), but I don't know of a single sheet good to make a 140" screen. :dontknow:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
thanks for your reply. I guess i will have to go with a screen mat. then. I have some samples comeing from proscreen to check out
 

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I also recently purchased the HD33 and have been projecting about a 120" screen on my textured wall. My seating distance is about the same as yours 8-10 feet and the room's lighting was uncontrolled.

Here's what I found, and led to do a few things differently.

1. Playing COD:MW3 on a 120" screen at only 10" distance is too much for my brain to handle. I thought it would be great, but the problem is that you have to move your eyes around to see the whole screen. You may be able to handle it, but after a couple weeks of playing that way I decided to bring the screen size down and it helped. Even with movies playing I felt as though I was sitting in the front row at the theatre. If that's how you like it, more power to ya!

2. I picked up a 4x8' sheet of 1/2" thick drywall. I searched home depot for other suitable materials, but at only $8 I found the surface texture, weight, and rigidity of drywall to be the best bang for buck. I rigged the drywall on my entertainment stand and viewed my new $8 100" screen in amazement. The smooth matt surface of unfinished drywall was way better than my semi-glossy textured wall. The screen being "only" 100" was helping me out a lot in the video game and I no longer felt as violated by the massive image in front of me.

3. Light control. All my walls and ceiling are white, therefore the reflect back onto the screen all that brightness. So I painted the walls a very dark grey blue color. I would have done pure grey, but the CEO (wifey) wanted a little color. This helped my contrast ratio out a lot, but because the ceiling is still white the screen gets hit by quite a bit of ambient light.

4. To counter the effects of the ambient light I researched some of the grey screens in development here. I ended up making a mix of Elektra to about N8.3 and double primed and painted the drywall sheet. Also, I'm adding trim to my 16:9 cut drywall so that cut my diagonal screen size down to about 96". The bonus here is that because I'm projecting a smaller image it will be brighter and more crisp at a distance of only 10'. I'll post some pics once I hit 5 posts. The problem I'm having right now is getting the topcoat of Elektra to be smooth, I always end up with a texture I don't like. I'm throwing it up as is tonight and I'll take some pictures to show.

Anyone have recommendations for the best roller to use? I was using the Purdy ultra smooth roller and expected way more out of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for your input. Yeah , I am used to being close to the huge screen from using my DIY projector, so it is not a huge deal for me. I like the immersive effect it gives when playing games, the 3d is very immersive that way,and its great for when I am doing work/ web surfing as a monitor.

I recently got some screen samples. I tried out the two grey they sent which are about n8 and n9. I really didnt like the way it made the whites and colors look. It made the blacks look great, but the rest left much to be desired. I am sure it is different with a whole screen, perception being what it is, but I think I am going to go with a normal gain white screen.

My setup is in my living area, but I can control the lighting when I want to for movies, so that is not an issue too much. It just wont do anything for the not very black blacks on the HD33. Low brightness, high contast seems to help with that a some, but I just started fooling with it using the disney WOW disc.

I plan on painting the projected wall a dark color also. not sure yet maybe a dark blue or burnt orangeish. I have no CEO telling me I cant just go grey LOL, but I am not down with living in grey. The ceiling will be painted a light grey though
 

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Finally got around to taking some pictures of the setup.

HD33 is working great, in the daytime though I feel the need to use high power settings to get the best contrast ratio.

Watched the bluray for HUGO this weekend with a room full of friends. Lots of visual ooohs and Ahhhs. All around, I call this one a success.

One concern I have is that my screen may be TOO gray. I may have poured a little too much of the neutral gray mix in. This screen may actually be closer to the N8.0 mark and I don't think the HD33 has quite enough power to make best use of it.
 

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