[R5R]

Hi,

Im new here, but I've been reading the forums for a bit, my current setup is
BenQ MS510 and a 90" (4:3) Pull down vinyl shade.

I want to paint the vinyl shade with Black Widow, but i've read that the paint will crack due to the rolling of the screen. Some people in old posts have suggested using exterior paint in the mix but also said its too toxic (maybe I can mix interior with exterior paint to make it safer?). Can anybody tell me if theres a way to paint black widow onto a vinyl shade or is there another screen paint which would handle the rolling and unrolling?

Also another question, would anaglyph 3D (red/cyan) still work with a black widow screen(I read on another post the aluminium would interfere with the polarization :S )

Thanks for you time.

 

[Harpmaker]

Hi RSR, welcome to HTS! :wave:

With your PJ and screen size the calculator at PJC is showing that you are getting an image brightness of about 49 fL. That is an incredibly bright image; many would call it too bright if you are using a white screen.

The fact is that with that much brightness you probably don't need to use Black Widow™, but could simply use a regular neutral gray paint of the same shade to help dim the image a bit and help increase image contrast and black level as well as help with any ambient light problems you might face.

We haven't done any real testing of painting retractable screens, but I have noticed that folks have seemed to use interior as well as exterior latex paints with success. To be on the safe side, you might want to buy a smaller cheap vinyl shade to use as a test bed for this project.

While I would recommend spraying your mix onto the shade, you could also try rolling with as short a nap roller as you can find (1/4" or shorter). Leave the shade in the down position for at least a week to help the paint cure as well as dry. Try to get even coverage with your first coat of paint if rolling (rolling puts down more paint per coat than spraying), but if the screen looks mottled or uneven add another coat. The theory being that the more coats of paint there are the less flexible the final screen will be.

You can use the Black Widow™ mix if you choose to (but I don't think you need it's added reflectivity) or simply try using a paint tinted to match "Glidden 'Veil'" which is a neutral N7.5 gray. I would recommend Valspar Ultra Premium Enamel interior latex paint in a flat finish. Your Lowe's store might try to tell you that that color isn't in their computer, but stick to your guns because it is, it's listed under "Glidden Master Palate" colors. If they can't manage to find that color in their system I can give you the tinting code so they can mix it anyway. :T

As for use in making 3D screens, all our mixes, as well as regular paints, will work fine for anaglyphic 3D images. The aluminum particles in Black Widow™ will actually increase the potential of the screen to retain polarization, but not enough to really work well with a polarized 3D system. Plans for such a screen are on the drawing board however.

 

[R5R]

Thanks for the prompt and informative reply its very much appreciated!

Yep the image is very bright ,but blacks are definitely lacking. Wouldn't black widow give me a better picture than using normal paint? Because I'm hoping black widow will let me use the projector during the day in the room i use it (the room is probably worst room for a projector it has 2 walls which are just windows, its a sun room lol). I could spray it since i have access to equipment for spraying but Ive never done that before so ill most likely roll it on.

I'm hoping thats it works because I want to avoid buying a screen since I managed to put this home theater together for 350$ total ( projector 260$ on special and screen 40$ , speakers I had a 2nd set of logitech 5.1 500watts lieing in my basement).

Ill update this thread with my progress on the screen soon I'm going to order the fine base aluminium.

 

[Harpmaker]

Black Widow™ can help absorb ambient light while still giving a good image on the screen, but it can't work miracles - no paint mix can no matter what you may read elsewhere, it's simply a matter of physics. Commercial screens such as the DNP Supernova and SI Black Diamond would probably do more of what you want done, but besides being extremely expensive (thousands of dollars) they have their own problems with greatly reduced viewing angles and color neutrality (the lack thereof). You simply can't cheat mother nature. By far the best way to get a good looking projected image is to somehow limit the light from all those windows during the day.

You can certainly try using Black Widow™; my concern in your case is that any screen that contains a reflective agent can show undesirable side effects if it is hit with too bright an image. With refractive mica-based mixes (recommended by other DIY screen forums) this shows up as shimmering in the image, with aluminum or other non-refractive reflective agents it is usually a form of granularity. These artifacts usually show up in scenes with large bright areas such as blue sky or white snow.

You can roll any of our reflective screen mixes we have published so far, but you must be careful not to leave roller marks in the paint and be sure that the surface you are painting has an even texture; the smoother the better, but it doesn't have to be baby-bottom smooth like other forums suggest. What reflective mixes highlight are texture differences in the painted surface. Also do NOT use a foam roller since it can contain air bubbles that can get into the paint; when these pop after the paint is on the screen it will produce a spot brighter than the surrounding areas - not good.

 

[R5R]

Humm so ill try a test panel on an extra shade i have to see how the aluminium reacts with the bright image, thanks for the heads up. Ill look into installing some blinds.

 

[R5R]

Well after carefully laying down a white primer, I put my first coat of black widow and it seems to have dryed well and its a good coat, problem is, I notice absolutely no difference between its image quality and the pull down shade, I did a side by side with my 2nd shade and 0 difference Im kinda really disappointed after all that work. Do you think doing a 2nd coat would make it magically start to work? My blacks are the same whits the same and color might be slightly more accurate.

 

[tonydp]

I though you were pointed away from BW for your screen? Should have gone to a gray as suggested by those "smarter" than us.

That's what I did and it paid off. Thanks again Harpmaker.

 

[R5R]

Well Harpmaker said I could use BW if I wanted but that I didnt really need the added reflectivity, but it should provide the same results or better results im guessing than the gray paint.

 

[Harpmaker]

Well after carefully laying down a white primer, I put my first coat of black widow and it seems to have dryed well and its a good coat, problem is, I notice absolutely no difference between its image quality and the pull down shade, I did a side by side with my 2nd shade and 0 difference Im kinda really disappointed after all that work. Do you think doing a 2nd coat would make it magically start to work? My blacks are the same whits the same and color might be slightly more accurate.

OK, I'm confused here. I had assumed you were using a WHITE shade, if so, there should be a large difference between that and a shade primed white and painted with BW™. This is a case were photos would be helpful to figure out what is going on.

We have never run into an instance where a single layer of BW™ let enough PJ light back through to in essence make the paint appear a lighter color of gray, but I suppose it is a possibility. Normally the only reason to apply a second coat of BW™ is if the first coat didn't get even coverage and appeared mottled.

Before we put on any more paint I would like to see a photo of the two shades.

 

[Harpmaker]

I though you were pointed away from BW for your screen? Should have gone to a gray as suggested by those "smarter" than us.

That's what I did and it paid off. Thanks again Harpmaker.

A N7.5 gray paint would produce a slightly darker image than one painted with BW™. Even though BW™ is N7.5 or 7.6 it will appear to be a lighter gray (N8 or slightly lighter - no definitive tests have been done on this) because of the reflectivity of the aluminum in it.

You're welcome Tony. :T

 

[bjb]

I don't want to hijack the OPs thread, but I do think I have a somewhat relevant question. Can you also paint a roll-up projector screen? As an example, if someone were to have a matte white manual roll up, could that be painted gray?

 

[tonyvdb]

Its not recommended as paint is not very flexible and will most likely crack or flake if painted on a screen if its rolled up and down all the time.

 

[Harpmaker]

I don't want to hijack the OPs thread, but I do think I have a somewhat relevant question. Can you also paint a roll-up projector screen? As an example, if someone were to have a matte white manual roll up, could that be painted gray?

My understanding is yes it can, but I have never done it.