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Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

309K views 1K replies 132 participants last post by  Harpmaker 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Announcement​

Createx has changed the formula for AAA which may result in BW™ not mixing out neutral. At this time, we do not recommend using this formula unless you have some of the older AAA.





[img]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l190/wbassett/HTS/Logos/BlackWidowPFG3.gif[/img]
Black Widow PFG
What is Black Widow 'PFG'? It is a revolutionary way of making a screen the 'DIY' way.

Black Widow™ Wikipedia Page - contains formula's and other useful information.

***EDIT*** - adding the formula to the top of this post for easy reference - ***EDIT***

Black Widow formula

- One quart of Valspar Ultra Premium Flat Enamel (we call this VUPE frequently) tinted PPG (Pittsburgh Paints) 427-2 Bermuda Beige
- 8oz. of Auto Air Aluminum fine

Lowes, Home Depot, Menards, Sherwin Williams, Ace Hardware, Benjamin Moore and I'm sure many others can easily match PPG 427-2 Bermuda Beige. Just tell the counter person you'd like a quart of VUPE, or the flat enamel of your choice, tinted Pittsburgh Paints Bermuda Beige.

Auto Air Aluminum Fine may be found locally at auto paint stores or an airbrush supply store. If not, it's readily available online at Dick Blick amongst other places. Dick Blick runs out of the 4oz bottles quite frequently - like today for instance. What can I say? We created a lot of demand I guess. ;) You can google it for other online vendors as well.

Add the two in a separate pail and mix until they are blended thoroughly. The Bermuda Beige is just that, beige. When added to the aluminum it becomes a dead on N7.5 neutral.

This mix can be applied either by spraying or by rolling. Rolling should be at least two coats, spraying should be at least 6 coats.

One quart of VUPE gives you 100 square feet of coverage. That plus the AAA should give you at least three coats on a 100" screen.

Some pictures of the items you need:

Vaslpar Ultra Premium Flat Enamel tinted Bermuda Beige.


The Valspar Ultra Premium Flat Enamel paint has been renamed by Lowe's to Valspar Ultra Premium Super Flat Finish. The paint is the same so the existing tint formula will still work.



You can use Behr 1850 as well and the picture of the Auto Air Aluminum is actually a quart - not the two 4oz bottles you would need for a quart of Bermuda Beige.


I also tested PPG Grand Distinction Flat Enamel - of all the paints this one seemed the best for rolling. But I think it's only available at Menards - which is a much smaller chain than Home Depot and Lowes.



When rolling, use a 1/4" nap roller for less texture. Do not use a foam roller as they have been found to create more bubbles while rolling which can create concentrations of the aluminum when they pop. It's strongly advisable to set up a work light off to one side of the screen so that you can see the progress and avoid roller marks. Avoiding roller marks is essential but it's not as difficult to achieve as most make it out to be. Roll the screen like you would a wall and you should be fine. Before the paint has had a chance to dry go back over it down rolling each pass. Apply no pressure other than holding the roller on the wall. This will eliminate any roller marks.

Spraying should only be attempted after you are comfortable with your spraying equipment. If you have to spray and have never done it before, we recommend the Wagner Control Spray HVLP gun sold at several of the big box stores. The kit comes with a viscosity cup which helps you determine the amount of water to add to your mix. A general rule of thumb is that you add water, mixing it in before testing it, until the resulting mix runs out of the viscosity cup in 45 seconds or less.

It really is that simple! No mixing tubes of artist acrylics, popsicle stick paints, etc. using tiny little milliliter measuring implements. Just dump one 8oz AAA bottle or two 4oz AAA bottles and the quart of Bermuda Beige into a pail, mix it up and apply. :T

***End of edit*** - January 16, 2010

A very brief history of DIY painted screens and some of the more popular methods and mindsets:
For years the debate was White vs Gray. White is easy and the most forgiving. Of course the better balanced a white screen is the more accurate it will be, but unlike a gray screen White is more forgiving and can be off more and not be as noticeable as a gray screen that isn't a well balanced color. Still even with a white screen, the closer to D65 it is the more accurate it will be.

The same goes with gray screens, the closer they are to neutral the better and more accurate they are.
But what exactly constitutes a 'neutral'?

Good Question. There are many parameters but the main ones are the color balance (L*ab and xyY values), spectral curve, and color temperature.

For years many have tried to make the 'perfect' DIY screen. One that would perform with ambient lighting but also perform equally as well in a dark and dedicated environment.

One of the biggest problems and debates has been what exactly is gray? This has literally been debated for years and rather than explain it all over again the best thing is to refer to the neutral gray thread.

As good as a simple neutral gray is, there has always been a desire to improve upon things. The most popular way up until now has been by the use of mica (pearlescent) and poly coatings. The problem is mica by nature causes a color shift.

So how can we improve on a well balanced neutral gray without introducing color shifting that mica's and interference pigments are known to cause? By using non-interference pigments instead...

[MOUSE]PFG stands for 'Pigment Free Gray'. Granted anything added to a white based paint to change the color is technically a pigment, this is a gray that is not created by use of the standard pigments used in paint shops or by other DIY methods. Hence the original name 'PFG', or Pigment Free Gray.[/MOUSE]

It was found that by adding aluminum based paint (which is a water based paint comprised primarily of aluminum and no other colorants) a gray was created. Aluminum is a very bright and universal element. It has been used over the years as a 'silver' substitute, and has even been used for making mirrors. Needless to say it is very bright and reflective.

That and the fact that it is a non-interference substance it was a very interesting element. The results were astounding.

First let's look at one of the most neutral Off The Self neutral grays made the conventional way with various colorant pigments.



This is about as neutral as it gets with pigment based colorants. Look at the values highlighted in green. The color balance, temperature, and spectral curve all are well within our desired specifications.

Now let's look at what happens to that same ideal neutral when an interference material such as mica is added.

Quite a change from the neutral balance seen before, and this was with just one coating.

Next up is one of the most well known and popular DIY advanced screen methods.

Again a major change from our well balanced neutral reference.

Black Widow PFG is up next... First a 4:1 mix ratio using Sherwin Williams Luminous White.

It isn't dead on neutral but is a very close near neutral. Look at the spectral curve though, it's still very flat!

Next is a 5:1 ratio mix using True Value's Winter Mist, the same as the very first data graphic shown...

So what exactly is Black Widow? It is a gray made using Henry Aluminum roof paint added in the proper ratio to a common base paint. You can't just use anything, it has to be a water based aluminum paint so we went with Henry 558. The original material was a plain water based aluminum paint, but unfortunately it was discontinued.

What are the benefits? Well as the Spider says-
  • Better Blacks
  • Bolder Colors
  • Whiter Whites
  • Excellent performance with both ambient light and lights out dedicated setups
  • A brighter and more vibrant image without the color shifting problems caused by iridescence.
  • Sharper image quality and shadow detail
That's some pretty bold claims... seeing is believing though.
The center of the screen are the two original PFG test panels in a 3:1 and 4:1 ratio. To the left is a known performer, Sherwin Williams Gray Screen, and to the right is a generic general run of the mill N8.5 shade of gray.

SW Gray Screen was one of the Kings of Off The Shelf (OTS) grays that provided deep blacks, excellent color reproduction and very white whites. It's no contest between the two.

So PFG wins with blacks but what about color? Another good question...
Color reproduction is just as accurate but has a more vivid look to them. Here we can see that there is no discernible difference in color reproduction between PFG and a known performer. What the camera can't show is the depth and detail is much greater in the PFG screen.

The secret is the aluminum, but the key is not only the lack of color shifting that iridescence cause, but how uniform the aluminum is.
To the left is a PFG sample, to the right is a mica based application. The aluminum has a much denser and more uniform coverage as compared to the larger mica flakes. It's also very easy to see reds, blues, yellows, orange and other colors throughout the mica. That is a perfect example of uniformity and lack of color shifting.

What is really amazing is this is a darker screen but doesn't look dull or muddy like most dark grays look. The aluminum is the performance difference.
Lights out...

Lights on...

It was these tests that led to the current application that we are now ready to present... Black Widow PFG!

The next logical question is how do you make it and how do you apply it.

Making it is very simple. For a 4:1 ratio take 8 ounces of Auto Air Aluminum Fine and add it to a quart of Valspar flat enamal tinted to PPG Bermuda Beige, stir and apply. That will make 40 ounces of Black Widow


How is Black Widow applied? It's just like painting a wall. No special rollers or rolling techniques are needed. Just a good quality low nap roller. Prime the surface with a good primer, my primer of choice is Kilz2, but any good quality white primer will work. Mix up your Black Widow, and roll it on... it really is that easy. Stay away from foam rollers though. They sometimes cause bubbles to form and when the bubbles pop a bright spot is formed. If you see a bubble, don't panic, just roll it out and move on.

Coming up next are some actual Black Widow shots and even a first hand account of making a full size screen and how it performs.
 
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18
#270 · (Edited)
Ok, here's my review. I've tried to take a couple of screen shots, but they are not the best.

I've been using a neutral grey painted screen (RGB 199 200 200) I'll call NG8. I also have Optoma Graywolf II screen material which I extracted from one of their pull down screens. For those not familiar with it, it is a dark grey glass beaded screen of 1.8 gain. I actually quite like it, but the screen surace is very visible, and once marked it is impossible to clean. Mine has marks. I've also just returned a Da-Lite HCCV screen since there was little difference between it and my NG8.

I'd like the Holy Grail - deeper blacks and brighter whites. A DIY Firehawk. My projector is a Sony VW60 and screen size is 120" I have full light control but do sometimes view with a light on.

First I painted a coat of AAA BW over my NG8. But I didn't put in enough AAA as the shades were basically identical. So I recoated with a more strictly measured 4:1 mix. This was darker and is about the same shade of grey as the Graywolf.

I watched a couple of movies on this, mainly the original Star Wars. Then I covered half the screen with the Graywolf and watched again.

The good news is that the blacks were noticeably darker than the already good blacks from the Graywolf. Less good was that so were the whites. But is no surprise that BW can't match the 1.8 gain of the Graywolf. You can see the differences in the flash shot I took of the two. Obviously it is not as dramatic with real images.

Of the two, I would rather have the deeper blacks than the slightly overcooked whites of the Graywolf.

However, the whites with the BW were pretty dim, even without the Graywolf as reference, and my projector was on the verge of running out of horsepower. So I decided to be all scientific and repainted half the screen with NG8, a shade I know also produces better blacks than the Graywolf.

Here things got interesting.

The NG8 produced blacks almost as deep as the BW, but with noticeably better whites. Both are about equal in color balance to my eyes with the NG8 perhaps a tad rosier.

I've attached shots.

The first shows the Graywolf on the left and BW on right with flash. You can see how bright the GW gets. The next shows the BW on the left and NG8 on the right under flash.

The next is a starfield from Star Wars. Here you can see how close the black levels are. The screens cross over just to the left of the central moon.

Then we have the spaceship flyover. Here the differences in white levels become more obvious. And then finally an even more obvious shot of Darth inside the white spaceship.

To summarize then, for me the Black Widow has not proved to have any real advantage over the Neutral Grey screen. The marginally improved blacks are offset by significantly worse whites, as one would expect from a darker grey.

In mitigation, I may have gone too far to the dark side when I remixed the BW for the second coat so I will probably recoat the BW side of the screen with an inbetween mix.

But for the moment, unless I bite the bullet and go Firehawk, the NG8 still seems to be the screen to beat.

This may change if you have a brighter projector.
 

Attachments

#272 · (Edited)
On my graywolf II screen the whites are ok, it's the mid-range colors that seem to be muted compared to white. I had 1 quart of Glidden Universal Gray Flat mixed with about 6oz of gloss white and 4 oz of water before the graywolf II - and the graywolf II wins that battle fairly easy. I have two problems with the graywolf II - mid-range range colors and screen texture.

Mech, could we use some gloss white to lighten this mix and possible added a little shean over the flat? Like maybe 20oz oz WM, 4oz he558, 4oz gloss white or semi-gloss?
 
#274 ·
What mixes did you guys use?

I'm a little confused, as I see mention of the AAA and Winter Mist?

The AAA is to be mixed with Bermuda Beige, and the Henry 558 is to be mixed with Winter Mist or Luminous white.
The Luminous white mix has been shown to be not as neutral as the WM/558 though.
 
#284 ·
I can say that according to Tiddler Dulux didn't test well for him and he recommended not using it. I don't think anyone here has tried a BW using Dulux, but it seems there is something about that base paint that negates the aluminum effect.
 
#276 ·
Ok Steve, I went back and noticed that Tony was asking mech about WM+white and AAA, so I got a bit confused there.

Sorry about that.

I see that the BW side is quite a bit darker than your NG8 screen, what is the difference with any AL?
That VW60 isn't really suited for AL though is it? I thought I read that it wasn't a very bright PJ(out of my price range, so I don't pay that much attention).

When you get up close to the BW screen, can you see any ALU?
 
#277 ·
Steve,

In that comparison shot of the BW/NG8 (half and half) sample screen, was that taken with or without a flash?

If taken without a flash, could you take a shot of that from the same spot with a flash as well?
 
#278 ·
Steve,

What is NG8? Throwing a number like that out there made me think that it would be a Munsell N8 shade. But clearly looking at your photos, if the Black Widow was made like all of ours here in North America, it seems to be at least a N9 or greater. Which, in effect, would be comparing apples to oranges. clearly in your starfield shot the blacks are better on the BW and it seems, though it is hard to tell, the whites from the stars appear the same. That's quite the feat for a N7.5 compared to a greater than N9!! :T

I would love to see a macro shot closeup of the two paints. If you need to white balance the camera, you could probably do it on either panel. And I'd also like to see some of those star field shots with your lights a blazing! And while we're at it if you could do one with the pj projecting white light only. :hide: I just want to see how it's really holding up to the much lighter screen.

Also, one must consider the statement that I have made over and over. Black Widow is the best ambient light DIY screen paint out there. With that in mind I'd love to see those star field shots with your lights on! ;)

Again - This is not a mix for the dark room bat cave theater room!! I don't think we can stress this enough! If you watch in an environment that is completely void of light, you're barking up the wrong tree trying this mix! This is for the folks such as myself who either have to have some lights on (wife) or enjoy having all the crew over to watch the game.

If we mislead you into doing this Steve I apologize and if you could point me to where it was that we lead you astray I will correct it. :T But again, this is not a paint mix for a completely light controlled home theater that will be used only in lights out viewing.

mech
 
#280 ·
... But again, this is not a paint mix for a completely light controlled home theater that will be used only in lights out viewing.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't BW also for those that want blacker blacks (a darker gray screen) while not killing the whites? BW does this by increasing the angular gain through the use of aluminum flakes.

Don't know what's going on in Steve's case.

Steve, do you see aluminum flakes in your BW paint? If so, how far away from the screen do you have to be before you can't see them? I don't know how much further BW experimenting you are willing to do, but something that has been in the back of my mind (and mech's too I think) is trying the medium grade of AAA, it should give more angular gain than the fine grade.

I feel I should also mention that taking flash photos of screens isn't a very reliable way to judge their reflective qualities because flash intensity varies greatly from camera to camera. It has it's uses, but it's nothing to judge performance on, IMO.
 
#281 ·
Our white screen ideas haven't gone anywhere yet. We have come up with lighter versions of Black Widow.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...eens/9769-further-investigations-part-ii.html

We're working on getting a N9 version, but I got a bit tied up working out someone's issues. Hopefully in a couple weeks or less. The current 4:1:1 mix is a N8 shade. But I haven't tested it on a panel yet.

I can tell you though that it's important to stick to the recommended paints at this time. One of the issues I had to work out was a myth of exterior paints. Exterior paints, according to my ICI paint guy, offer no value over an interior paint other than mildicides and fungicides. And this stuff really makes the paint stink! I kinda wish I would have read the MSDS on the stuff before I tried it. Probably knocked a few weeks off of my life breathing that stuff in the garage. It also offers a bit of UV protection. Outside of that it is no different than an interior paint. And you really don't want to have to smell this stuff!

With regards to the UV protection, I've said many times that Behr 780 poly yellows. I've been offered this information from benven (whom I respect a great deal). And having witnessed it on my FG screen I can attest that it does actually yellow over time. So I believe that we were heading down the exterior paint road for some UV protection. I can't see a need for fungicides and mildicides unless you have the humidity at 80% in your house year round. There may have been something said about it being a better paint or something along that line but from my talks with several paint store people, it's just the additional chemicals added to help in last in a harsh environment that makes it different.

The Dulux paint I tested was an exterior paint and I purchased a gallon of Behr 485 Exterior tinted Bermuda Beige to test the claims being made. First, Home Depot has Bermuda Beige in their system. Secondly don't run and buy a quart of this stuff! ;) The tint was correct and when mixed with the AAA it created a screen that acted just as every other BW panel I've done. It acted brighter than it was. However, when I mixed it up I could tell right away that it wasn't working as well as the rest. It had a reddish tinge to it. And the spectro numbers confirmed it. So, to validate all this I'm gonna pick up a quart of the interior behr and see how that pans out. If it works, I'd just forget about exterior paints altogether. Someone tell me how long I have to live! :rofl:

The thing is you want to remain neutral and you want a screen with a little 'pop' that's easy to apply. AAA makes it much easier and economical to do as you don't have to buy a gallon of HE558 and wonder what you're going to do with the extra 120oz or so.

mech
 
#283 ·
I forgot to add that once you're comparing in a cave environment, it's not only the screen that gives you the blacks but it's also the pj. I believe the pj in use boats a contrast ratio of 35000:1. But I also have seen that it's nowhere near that in reality. Even if it's 15000:1, the pj will have some to do with the blacks you're seeing. It's with a bit of ambient light where things get interesting. ;)

mech
 
#286 ·
Flashes vary by camera and by that camera's metering. It's a very effective tool, along with projecting a white light or a solid color from the pj, for detecting hot spotting.

And as you said muzz, with regards to Black Widow it does show how the aluminum works as opposed to no flash.

Some new I took today:

No Flash



Flash



Projected White Light



A macro



some more white projected light







So you can clearly see that in the no flash picture with the light coming from the cans about 4 feet back that the panels are the pretty **** close to the same shade. By the way, the panel hanging on the left is Winter Mountain.

The flash picture shows what happens when light hits aluminum. It reflects and gives you the illusion of a lighter panel, when it fact it's the same shade.

The projected white light clearly shows the two BW panels being much brighter than the panel of similar shade. Almost as bright as Winter Mountain. Which is about 15 points brighter than the BW panel.

The macro, unfortunately due to compression, was my attempt at showing the aluminum particles. They are there. They're just a bit tough to see due to the compression.

mech
 
#287 ·
Just to answer a couple of questions, I called my exisitng screen screen an Neutral Grey 8 based on the RGB numbers but don't know the exact Munsell shade. It may be a bit lighter.

The side by side of the BW and exisiting screen was taken using flash. When viewed without any light projected the difference is slightly less, ie the existing screen appears a little darker and the BW about the same.

The other shots were taken with full light control. I'll check ambient light later tonight.

It may be some kind of issue between Dulux and AAA, but so far I have to say that the BW is acting like I'd expect a dark grey to. No more.

As mentioned above, the aluminium is effectively invisible. I cannot see any flakes.

I have enough AAA for probably one more coat. I'm open to suggestions.

:)
 
#289 ·
It may be some kind of issue between Dulux and AAA, but so far I have to say that the BW is acting like I'd expect a dark grey to. No more.

As mentioned above, the aluminium is effectively invisible. I cannot see any flakes.

I have enough AAA for probably one more coat. I'm open to suggestions.

:)
If you can't see ANY aluminum flakes something is very wrong with the mix. Compared to Henry 558, the AAA flakes are more subdued, but they are still visible.

I would recommend trying another brand of base paint. The tint you are using seems to be okay, and I assume they can color match in Oz. :)

Sorry you're having problems Steve.
 
G
#294 ·
Just a thought here, as I have just bought the Dulux Ellen Half in flat inside paint with the AAA fine, and will be trying it later tomorrow.
I recall some years ago of spray painting Auto Duco with an aluminium base and it depended a lot on how thin the mixture was and how quickly it dried, so perhaps the consistancy of the Dulux base may need a little thinning so as to give the flakes time to settle. The variation with the Duco seemed to give completely different finishes which appeared to be from the al. flakes not lying flat.
Regards..............Brian W.
 
#298 ·
Glowing reviews from my Big 12 Watch party! Plenty O' light in the room and the BW married with the Panny AX200 dropped jaws. I couldn't be happier. Sorry haven't been on much lately. Been busy tweaking and buiding trim boards. When the wife downloads the camera at Wally World. I'll get some screenies up.

Haft to pardon me. My house is still rockin after the selection show had KU as the #1 seed in the Midwest region. GREAT DAY!!! Beat texas and snag the top seed. Can't wait for thursday as MARCH MADNESS rolls on.

Rock Chalk!!!!
 
#301 ·
Well, I tried a new base using non-Dulux paint with essentially the same result. There was an aluminium-type sheen when I first applied it, but now there is basically none. My current grey screen gives very similar black levels and much better white levels.

The BW is better in ambient conditions. But no more than a deeper shade of ordinary grey would be.

A different base or a different aluminium might change things, but I've wasted enough time and money on this. The results obtained by some here just don't seem repeatable with the materials available to me.

I think I'll just start saving for a used Firehawk.
 
#302 ·
And no pictures? It was pretty easy for us to pick up on the fact that it was wrong by looking at your first pics. I'd like to see how the second round turned out.

I'll reserve judgment until Prof tries this out. But things are not looking good for Australia right now. I know they're looking OK in New Zealand...

And hey, while we're at it. All you folks who've painted one of these - muzz, bidzer, paints, etc., could you give me a good close up of your screen? So we can show what the aluminum is supposed to look like? Thanks! :T You may have to put something in the shot for the camera to focus on.

mech
 
#304 ·
I'll reserve judgment until Prof tries this out. But things are not looking good for Australia right now. I know they're looking OK in New Zealand...
Mech, I've been stewing over everyones comments of late and I have to say I have a few concerns..

Bidzer's results were outstanding, and it was these results that stirred me into action..
Since then there seems to be a prolifery of various results, ranging from reasonable to just plain bad..

It also seems that BW is obviously more orientated towards some ambient light conditions than total light control..
Certainly the proposed addition of white to the mix puts it more in line with a total light control set up, but I'm beginning to wonder whether the 4:1:1 mix is going to be enough..

Since I haven't seen in screenshots of that mix, I don't have anything to base my judgment on..

One thing I don't understand is why Aus. paint bases should be that much different that US paint bases!!
If the RGB readings can be matched to an Aus. base, surely it should work in the same way as a US paint..

One thing that does really concern me though is all these problems with roller marks and the paint drying very quickly..
Roller marks do show up very easily in bright sky or snow scenes and I certainly don't want that..

We've just had 15 days straight of temperatures in the high 30's to low 40's!!!...Broke the all time record for any capital city in Australia...certainly not good painting weather, and I wouldn't even begin to contemplate painting until we get some cooler weather..

To get what I looking for in a screen, I may have to go out on a limb with this one and move away from Grey as much as possible, but still trying to maintain the good blacks that BW produces..

I think I'm going to try a 4:1:2 mix initially and see if that gives me a lighter BW, more suited to the light controlled theatre..

Any thoughts on this?
 
G
#305 · (Edited)
The auto air aluminum came in today and I went and picked up the quart of bermuda beige from Lowes using the valspar interior flat finish. I'll be painting at some point this week, but I won't have my projector back until next week to try out the new screen.

While my entire wall is currently painted with gray screen, my plan is to simply tape off my viewing area and go over that (about 80" diagonal) with the BW. Since my projector has vertical lens shift I should be able to get a really good comparison between GS and BW by simply shifting the image up. I should be able to fill the top half of the image with GS and the bottom with BW. If I can figure out how to move my pictures from my digi to my computer, I'll try and get some screen shots to post. Otherwise, I'll definitely be back with my observations once my new, refurbished, Samsung arrives.

With how small screen size is, I already get a pretty good picture with ambient light (in low lamp mode, no less). My hope is that BW will make it even better! Given that there hasn't yet been a reported case of the Lowes Bermuda Beige achieving great results with auto air aluminum, I have high hopes!
 
G
#309 ·
Just did the first coat and did some trials. My setup is slightly different in that I am using 3 projectors and the 3 screens which are at about 45 degrees to each other. which I use for a fullsize flight simulator. Therefore my problem is that the ambient light from the other 2 screens always gives a problem, washing out the colours etc.
Mech, you are brilliant. My many thanks for all the effort you have put in to developing BW. With only one coat it has solved my problems and I suspect it will be better tommorrow when I put another coat on.
Kind regards and Many thanks.................Brian W.
 
G
#315 ·
I wonder where you're at with relation to Mr. Dodd? Is paint made differently in Australia where you are at? What was your previous screen?

mech
Not sure, but I am on the east coast, just south of Brisbane. I used Dulux flat Half Ellen (234-212-199) Wash-n Wear mixed with the AAA (fine), exactly as you specified. I was previously using just flat white on the 3 screens, which was not too good as you can imagine. I have noted that someone said the al. specs were not visible.They are, but very small and I suspect it is is the end combination that counts.
Regards...............Brian W.
 
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