[mechman]

Recent developments with Auto Air Aluminum Fine have rendered the formula for making Black Widow™ useless. It first came to our attention here in this thread. This has resulted in us closing the Black Widow™ thread and researching what had changed that caused BW™ to no longer result in a neutral gray paint mix.

Don (Harpmaker) had several phone conversations with Createx and the finding were that they had changed the aluminum additive from a liquid form to an encapsulated powdered one (this was to prevent off gassing during shipment). This change resulted in a very different reaction with the base paint causing us to do further research with the new formulation of AAA.

This new research will be documented here. Please do not post here unless you have something to offer.

Bottles of AAA that have a lot number with an 81 or higher are the new AAA. Less than 81 would be the old that would work with Bermuda Beige.

Here are UPC photos of the old and new bottles:

Where the bottle label has WDXXXX-XXBX on it, you're looking at the red XX'x for a value. My old AAA has a value of 76 and the new bottle 86.

The positive aspect of all of this is that it should have very little effect upon the base paint as the old AAA did. If any of you were around when I came up with the base paint formula you'll recall I was mixing up paint for one of my kid's art projects while I was doing that testing. This time around should be a little easier!

The three base paint colors I chose to test with the new AAA were these:

00NN 37/000 . . . "Granite Gray" [N6.7] - 162 162 161 - 66.62 -0.02 -0.28

00NN 53/000 . . . "Veil" [N7.8] - 190 190 189 - 76.99 -0.02 -0.11

and

00NN 72/000 . . . "Snowfield" [N8.8] - 219 220 219 - 87.68 -0.3 -0.3


Here are the readings of the base paints I purchased:

Granite Grey

159 159 157 (RGB)
0.314 0.331 34.6 (xyY)
65.4 -0.28 0.83 (CIE Lab)

Veil

189 189 188
0.314 0.330 50.7
76.5 -0.03 0.53

Snowfield

217 218 218
0.312 0.329 69.8
86.9 -0.27 -0.29


And here are the readings of the base paints mixed with the new AAA in a 4:1 ratio

Granite Grey + AAA

160 160 157
0.316 0.333 34.9
65.7 -0.23 1.51

Veil+AAA

187 187 186
0.314 0.331 49.7
75.9 -0.17 0.75

Snowfield+AAA

210 212 213
0.310 0.328 65.6
84.8 -0.56 -0.79

It appears that the new AAA had the least effect upon Veil. While the other two were still close to being neutral, the effect that the AAA had on each seems to have flip flopped from one side of Veil to the other. :scratch:

There will be more testing coming in the coming days/weeks. I have two of the new AAA panels sprayed already. Next I have to paint panels of just the base paint, the old BW™ mix, and a new Granite Grey:AAA panel. I purchased the Granite Gray at Home Depot and bought it a quart of it in Glidden Eggshell. It hot spots like the dickens!

I'll also be getting microscope shots of the panels so that you can compare the new AAA to the old.

Harp and I are hoping to get this wrapped up within a couple of weeks. But it will all depend upon two things - Harp getting over his bug and me finding time around family affairs.

Stay tuned... The best and most used worldwide DIY screen paint mix is about to get better! :bigsmile:

 

[mechman]

Should be able to get some spraying done this week. They're calling for rain most of the day tomorrow. :T

I'm thinking that a better substitute for Snowfield in the N8.5-9ish area may be Sherwin Williams Spatial White. Thoughts on this Harp?

Spatial White
224 224 223
89.12 -0.04 0.61

 

[Harpmaker]

Should be able to get some spraying done this week. They're calling for rain most of the day tomorrow. :T

I'm thinking that a better substitute for Snowfield in the N8.5-9ish area may be Sherwin Williams Spatial White. Thoughts on this Harp?

Spatial White
224 224 223
89.12 -0.04 0.61

Is that with AAA-F added or just the base paint?

Today I'll be getting some paints to test in various BW Ultra™ mixes as well as more tempered hardboard to make test panels.

 

[mechman]

Is that with AAA-F added or just the base paint?

Today I'll be getting some paints to test in various BW Ultra™ mixes as well as more tempered hardboard to make test panels.

Base paint. I should have a measure of it somewhere as well because I had a gallon of it at one point in time. It's on one of my garage walls now. I could always go and measure the wall too.

 

[mechman]

I guess I don't have a measure of it. The one up on mechman.net is just a copy of the EasyRGB numbers.

I may have to measure a wall. :coocoo:

 

[Yiannis1970]

Mech, perhaps you could consider also Tundra 2133-70 from B.M. as a base (Thanks Don!!). Here it is..

 

[mechman]

Mech, perhaps you could consider also Tundra 2133-70 from B.M. as a base (Thanks Don!!). Here it is..

Definitely! :T

 

[olwe]

I am actually in the process of repainting my screen again.

As some of you know, I made a BW screen that had the Valspar BB mixed with the new AAA-F formula and it was not what I expected. Kudos to mech and Harp to keep us all in the loop in regards to the changes in the mix.

Anyway, on to my adventure. I had 2 bottles of AAA-F, one old and one new. I had a quart of Behr tinted to BB and I got a quart of Valspar tinted to Glidden Universal Grey.

So what I did earlier was make two BW mixes, Behr with old AAA-F and Valspar with new AAA-F. I then blended the 2 mixes together. End result is a slightly lighter grey than the Behr BW mix.

I have yet to paint the screen though. I finished late re-taping the wall.

Don't worry, Don. I got 5 samples for you drying as I type this - 2 base paints, 2 with the added AAA-F, and 1 sample of the final mixture. I will mail them to you asap. Hopefully they will be helpful.

 

[Harpmaker]

I am actually in the process of repainting my screen again.

As some of you know, I made a BW screen that had the Valspar BB mixed with the new AAA-F formula and it was not what I expected. Kudos to mech and Harp to keep us all in the loop in regards to the changes in the mix.

Anyway, on to my adventure. I had 2 bottles of AAA-F, one old and one new. I had a quart of Behr tinted to BB and I got a quart of Valspar tinted to Glidden Universal Grey.

So what I did earlier was make two BW mixes, Behr with old AAA-F and Valspar with new AAA-F. I then blended the 2 mixes together. End result is a slightly lighter grey than the Behr BW mix.

That is to be expected since 'Universal Gray' is about N8.3 IIRC which would make for a lighter BW™ mix. Everything should be pretty neutral in color though.

I have yet to paint the screen though. I finished late re-taping the wall.

Don't worry, Don. I got 5 samples for you drying as I type this - 2 base paints, 2 with the added AAA-F, and 1 sample of the final mixture. I will mail them to you asap. Hopefully they will be helpful.

I'll be more than happy to measure them for you, and I'll get to it MUCH faster than I am at testing the new BW™ mixes. The bug I had was a bad one; I was never super-sick, but it just didn't want to give up and I still have a lot of fatigue from it. I don't mean to "cry in my beer", just want to let people know what is going on.

One of the things under test is using the Glidden paint sold by Wal-Mart! When we design mixes we try to make the ingredients as easy to get as possible.

 

[olwe]

I repainted my wall yesterday and it has been drying for about 24 hours now. And all I can say is WOW. This is how it should've looked like at first. The performance with ambient lighting is awesome even my dad noticed it. And at the same time, my screen looks brighter compared to the one I had before, which was the Valspar BB with the new AAA-F mix.

And for the first movie/video test for this new screen, I was watching Spartacus (S03E03) on it a while ago and it found myself smiling with how nice and neutral the picture looked. I just can't believe this simple and cheap solution would improve my budget projector's (LG PA70G) output. I am so glad I went with the Black Widow instead of the suggestions from the other forum.

I am really thankful for you guys' effort and dedication in producing this screen mix. Very well done. And I am sure it will only become better. Again, thank you very much.

And Don, I will have the samples mailed to you on Monday.

 

[Harpmaker]

I repainted my wall yesterday and it has been drying for about 24 hours now. And all I can say is WOW. This is how it should've looked like at first. The performance with ambient lighting is awesome even my dad noticed it. And at the same time, my screen looks brighter compared to the one I had before, which was the Valspar BB with the new AAA-F mix.

I'm really glad you are liking your screen. :bigsmile: It's funny you should mention that the neutral gray screen looks brighter than the BB/new AAA-F screen because the latter is actually lighter in shade, but not a neutral gray. I forget the term for the effect in color science, but the perceived brightness of an object is affected by it's color as well as it's actual light reflectance. For projection screens the more neutral the gray the better.

And for the first movie/video test for this new screen, I was watching Spartacus (S03E03) on it a while ago and it found myself smiling with how nice and neutral the picture looked. I just can't believe this simple and cheap solution would improve my budget projector's (LG PA70G) output. I am so glad I went with the Black Widow instead of the suggestions from the other forum.

We're glad too. We always cringe when someone gets talked into using one of those mica-heavy, polyurethane-infused mixes (assuming that is what you were referring to) that don't perform near as well as they are purported to. Not because their using those mixes costs us anything, but we know they are getting a less-than-optimal screen, paying through the nose for it, and in the case for the darker mixes they are having to mix 8 different paints (which we have shown to be unnecessary and a total waste of time) along with polyurethane to reach the final mix. And then there is the whole song and dance about applying them correctly. It's crazy! :coocoo:

BW™ (soon to be renamed Black Widow Ultra™) is a simple binary mix (just two paints are used), but a LOT of thought and experimentation went into making it that simple.

I am really thankful for you guys' effort and dedication in producing this screen mix. Very well done. And I am sure it will only become better. Again, thank you very much.

You are VERY welcome! And thanks to YOU again for being one of the ones to report the problem with the old BW™ mix rather than just giving up and trying something else!

And Don, I will have the samples mailed to you on Monday.

:T

 

[olwe]

Hey Harp. Have you received the samples I sent you last Monday, June 10? I am really excited on what you can tell about the different mixes it used. Thanks!

 

[Harpmaker]

Hey Harp. Have you received the samples I sent you last Monday, June 10? I am really excited on what you can tell about the different mixes it used. Thanks!

Yep, got 'em! :T Will be PM'ing you soon.

 

[mahler30]

.

 

[creeker79]

any updates on paint

 

[Harpmaker]

any updates on paint

Not unless Mech has something. I don't know what bug got ahold of me, but it doesn't want to let go! Spent last weekend in bed with a temp of 101.2°.

 

[mechman]

I keep thinking that I'll get to it and then something comes up. I was thinking today that I could get to it next week. But I say that every week. On the bright side, my kids are just about done with soccer. :huh:

 

[mechman]

I should add that if you'd like to use this mix, it's fine so far. I just need to find some time to finish spraying panels and testing it.

I need 4 more hours in a day.

 

[bjamm]

Just adding another supplier, probably best/cheapest?

SummitRacing.com - http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/auto-air-colors-4100-series-aluminum-base-paints

I bought a 32oz for $55 shipped to make a gallon. They drop ship direct from Createx and I received one today with lot number 97. Not sure how numbers will change once they go over lot 100.. What is recommended paint to mix with it now in the neutral gray? I have access to HD Behr, Lowes Valspar, and Sherwin Williams..

 

[mechman]

Planning on spraying panels today and mixing up some with a plain jane white base to see if it's still acceptable. Hopefully I can get all 6 panels done. I've only got about 4 hours to get it done.