[Lonely Raven]

OK, so I'm really bouncing around in these forums, soaking up ideas, and because of the plethora of information I'm changing my mind a lot.

I currently have a Wicked One folded horn with a pair of JL Audio 10W6v2-4 drivers in it, powered by an EP2500 (2 Ohms, 2 channel setting).

The sub sounds the best it has ever sounded. Teeth rattling, powerful bass. But it's kind of a one octave wonder. It's got a huge peak between 30Hz and 40Hz and drops pretty hard.

So I'm looking for something that goes deeper for Home Theater use, will be room filling (25' X 15' with openings into the dining room and kitchen), and very visceral. I want to really *feel* the sound...which I sorta have now with the folded horn, just not as deep as I want it to be.

I was considering Infinite Baffle, but the only available location for me is behind the seating position, which I'm told is the worst thing I could do.

So that leaves LLT for HT.

Right now my Wicked One sub is 36" X 36" X 14". I would have no problems making something that size, but taller for more air space (say 36" X 36" X 24"). I could maybe build something 24" X 15" X 60" and squeeze it behind my mains (running along the baseboard). But that seems kind of cluttered. I may have other options, but for the most part, decently sized sub is no problem for me, as long as I can tie it in with the furniture.

So, knowing all this, what is a killer option for me; tuned deep, visceral, powered by an EP2500, and major bang for the buck? I may even sell my Wicked One with the JL Audio drivers to fund this new sub. Otherwise it will be relegated to the future basement sound system (where old gear goes to die), or the garage (where old gear goes to get beat up in the workshop) where I listen to music while working on the bikes or working on the table saw. :devil:

I have put together a decent collection of tools, so I can make just about anything that I can find plans for.

Suggestions? :daydream:

 

[Sonnie]

I am sure you will get some good suggestions, but you know if you place the sub in the same approximate location that you will most likely have that same nasty peak. Have you ran REW (Room EQ Wizard) in your room to see what your response is?

 

[Lonely Raven]

Purple is with the Mic at the mouth of the horn, the rest of the lines are with various bass traps stuck in the corners.

I've moved the (heavy fugger) sub around a bunch in the room, and it's current location is the best it's going to get. I think a lot of the hump has to do with the sub and box being designed for car audio.

Whole system graph, pre treatments (most of which are still being built)

 

[Mike P.]

You say LLT and "bang for the buck". You'll need 13.5 cu.ft. internal for a net volume of 12.5 cu.ft. tuned to 15 hz for a Mach 5 Audio IXL-18. The sub could be down firing with the ports on the side. The external dimensions of the box would be 38" x 38" x 19" high. Add a 3/4 inch baseplate and 4 inch legs and the overall height is 23 and 3/4 inches.

 

[Lonely Raven]

You say LLT and "bang for the buck". You'll need 13.5 cu.ft. internal for a net volume of 12.5 cu.ft. tuned to 15 hz for a Mach 5 Audio IXL-18. The sub could be down firing with the ports on the side. The external dimensions of the box would be 38" x 38" x 19" high. Add a 3/4 inch baseplate and 4 inch legs and the overall height is 23 and 3/4 inches.

I could work with that.

How do I figure out how big to make the ports, etc. Are there any "easy button" type designs for something similar to this?

Thanks Mike!

 

[Mike P.]

To keep the port air speed acceptable, you'll need three 4 inch flared ports 33 inches long or a slot port 3" x 13" x 32" long to get the same tuning. If you do a slot port, round over the edges for smoother air flow.
You'll have to brace the cabinet, I suggest "window pane" type running both ways to ensure the box doesn't vibrate.
This sub will take it's recommended power handling of 800 watts in this box and I suggest a subsonic filter at 13 hz to keep the sub within its Xmax at that power input.

 

[Lonely Raven]

To keep the port air speed acceptable, you'll need three 4 inch flared ports 33 inches long or a slot port 3" x 13" x 32" long to get the same tuning. If you do a slot port, round over the edges for smoother air flow.
You'll have to brace the cabinet, I suggest "window pane" type running both ways to ensure the box doesn't vibrate.
This sub will take it's recommended power handling of 800 watts in this box and I suggest a subsonic filter at 13 hz to keep the sub within its Xmax at that power input.

Thanks again. Makes sense so far.

Is there any disadvantage to a slot port vs a tube port? Would the slot port still need to be X-amount of inches away from all side walls?

 

[Mike P.]

As long as the edges of the port are rounded over to ensure smooth air flow, there is no disadvantage to a slot port. A slot port follows the cabinet wall, as long as it doesn't terminate to close to an adjacent wall.

Heres a design of a slot port in a small cabinet to give you an idea.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...7-simple-12-infinity-kappa-vq-midq-plans.html

 

[Lonely Raven]

Thanks, I can work with that!

Is there a collection of build guides and plans around here? Or have people just been bookmarking them? A sticky with all the links in one thread would be great for those of us shopping for ideas/plans!

 

[Mike P.]

We have just what you need. This might give you some ideas.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/9265-members-subwoofer-database.html

 

[Lonely Raven]

We have just what you need. This might give you some ideas.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/9265-members-subwoofer-database.html

Awesome thread! Thanks!

Major food for thought!

 

[Lonely Raven]

Wow, a year ago that I started this thread...you know how far I've gotten? Well, after almost getting laid off twice, and having my hours cut...NO WHERE! :rolleyesno:

Anywho, I'm back on track with this. My birthday is next month, and my fiance said she wants to pitch in and help me get a good sub driver.

Over the past year I've rebuilt and tuned my table saw, and picked up *two* decent routers at garage sales! And I scored some nice long clamps off of Craigs List in some nice trade deals. So I'm all set to get this build working!

It's funny, as I'm reading through this thread, I read Mike P's responses, and a year later my brain comes up with the EXACT same questions I asked then. Weird Deja Vu reading this thread!

So I'm back on track and looking to start building. In the year since I started this thread, have there been any changes/advances in drivers? Do we still recommend Baltic Birtch over MDF to help keep the weight down? Any suggestions as to how this sub should be tuned considering an open floor plan that my house has and knowing I'm running an EP2500? What if I wanted to build this sub with the driver visible? Maybe facing upwards with a glass top on some sort of spacers?

Just throwing ideas out there and hoping for some suggestions. I still need to figure out how I'm going to get 4 X 8 panels home considering none of my friends or family have pickup trucks (anymore)!

 

[Mike P.]

Good to see you back! Now for your questions.

1. The IXL-18 is still the one for a budget LLT

2. Yes to Baltic Birtch over MDF for weight reduction.

3. A 15 hz tune is excellent for HT.

4. A glass top would need to be 4" above the driver so the sub's air movement isn't restricted. Then there's the issue of the glass top vibrating.

Are you considering a slot port or round ports?

 

[Lonely Raven]

Good to see you back! Now for your questions.

1. The IXL-18 is still the one for a budget LLT

2. Yes to Baltic Birtch over MDF for weight reduction.

3. A 15 hz tune is excellent for HT.

4. A glass top would need to be 4" above the driver so the sub's air movement isn't restricted. Then there's the issue of the glass top vibrating.

Are you considering a slot port or round ports?

OK, what if I have $400 budgeted for just the driver? Is there a significant improvement if I'm looking at a Maelstrom or some other 18" driver?

10-4 on the Baltic Birch. I'll just have to figure out how to get the panels home. If I'm not mistaken, 3/4" for the box, and 1/2" for the bracing is right?

I'm not sure what tune to use...my instincts say the lower the better, but I'm trusting your guidance. Again, I'm not married to any particular driver, I'm just hoping to get this done for $500 or so. But I don't want to cut corners. If 15hz is where it should be, I'm fine with that.

I like the idea of being able to see the driver, but it's not imperative. I just think it would be fun during movie nights or demos. I could easily have a 3/8" glass top with rounded corners cut for me, then have holes drilled in it and have it physically screwed to the stand offs. 4" from the driver wouldn't be a problem either. Performance, and cool factor are my goals! :T

As for slot or tube porting. I can do either. I have the woodworking stills to build this for any way that needs to be done! As long as there is no performance issue with one over the other...I don't care which is harder to build, I just don't want any chuffing. I'm leaning towards slot if there are no issues with that design, simply because it seems neat.

 

[robbo266317]

Just throwing ideas out there and hoping for some suggestions. I still need to figure out how I'm going to get 4 X 8 panels home considering none of my friends or family have pickup trucks (anymore)!

Some places will cut it up for you at a reasonable price.

 

[Lonely Raven]

Some places will cut it up for you at a reasonable price.

Yeah, but I didn't tune up my table saw for nothing! Besides, they are accurate within 1/4"...maybe. I'm accurate within a 64th...and sqaure! :T

 

[robbo266317]

What about roof racks?

 

[sub_junkie]

OK, what if I have $400 budgeted for just the driver? Is there a significant improvement if I'm looking at a Maelstrom or some other 18" driver?

10-4 on the Baltic Birch. I'll just have to figure out how to get the panels home. If I'm not mistaken, 3/4" for the box, and 1/2" for the bracing is right?

I'm not sure what tune to use...my instincts say the lower the better, but I'm trusting your guidance. Again, I'm not married to any particular driver, I'm just hoping to get this done for $500 or so. But I don't want to cut corners. If 15hz is where it should be, I'm fine with that.

I like the idea of being able to see the driver, but it's not imperative. I just think it would be fun during movie nights or demos. I could easily have a 3/8" glass top with rounded corners cut for me, then have holes drilled in it and have it physically screwed to the stand offs. 4" from the driver wouldn't be a problem either. Performance, and cool factor are my goals! :T

As for slot or tube porting. I can do either. I have the woodworking stills to build this for any way that needs to be done! As long as there is no performance issue with one over the other...I don't care which is harder to build, I just don't want any chuffing. I'm leaning towards slot if there are no issues with that design, simply because it seems neat.

With two IXL 18's in a 28 cu.ft box tuned to 15hz (14cu.ft for each) they would be 2.59dB's louder than a single Mal-X in a 14cu.ft box ported to 15hz. At 30hz, the two IXL 18's would be 2.36dB's or so louder. I think that Mike P. said that 2dB is barely noticeable? Or maybe it was 3dB though...I can't remember.
The Mal-X would be 3.4dB's louder at 20hz than a single IXL 18 in a 14 cu.ft box still ported to 15hz. At 30hz, it would be 3.75dB louder. The two IXL 18's and the Mal-X are pretty much neck and neck from 12hz to 5hz.
The two IXL 18's would be about $100 more expensive than a single Mal-X and the IXL's would require a second 14 cu.ft laying around also. I believe I read that you already have a EP2500? And, is 14 cu.ft acceptable or is that too big?

 

[Mike P.]

AS Dylan pointed out 2 IXL-18's would outperform a single Mal-X 18. If you're only going with one sub, the Mal-X would go louder and deeper if cabinet size isn't an issue.

 

[sub_junkie]

I got quite a different graph than yours, Mike. The Mal-X I modeled is in a 16 cu.ft box ported to 14hz, and has the appropriate HPF. It's barely under Xmax.
I'm also showing 100 dB's at 10hz, and your shows a little over 106dB. Is that with a single Mal-X? How many watts is your input power?