Building my first studio! It has an interesting challenge (portability), please help?

1785 Views 12 Replies 4 Participants Last post by NBPk402, Dec 7, 2015

Jimstr

Discussion Starter · Dec 5, 2015

New to the forum, and I have to say, I love it.
Before I start, I've drawn a few images (attached at the bottom) in paint for the visual people like myself. Also, most of the writing below is an acoustics section
where I cover STC ratings because I hadn't found all of this important information in one location anywhere else; it would've been helpful for a beginner like myself.

Plan:

Build a portable studio using ~4'x6' modules and bolt connectors (Figure 1 & 2)

Make it soundproof

As of now I'm going to use wood studs and OC R13 insulation to fill the wall cavities.
- I have 2x4x10's lying around and could save the money

Per budget & weight, I'm planning to use TWO 5/8" drywall sheets per module
- Original plan is GG or tec50 in between the sheets for damping

The ceiling modules will be separated from the preexisting ceiling joists by 1/2" while a
piece of drywall is attached directly to the subfloor (with GG or tec50 in between)
and a layer of insulation (Figure 3)

Weight per module and noise isolation are both important.

Notes:

Bolting the 2x4's together reduces the possibility of gaps between the modules and effectively creates a full, longstanding, framed wall, similar to most designs.

I can't caulk where the drywall would butt up against the next sheet (portablility). Not being very flush & allowing for gaps, I figure treat it like a door. Portability in mind,
high quality silicone weatherstripping, placed before connection of the modules seems o.k since it would compress as the bolts are tightened.
- An alternative solution could be to offset the second piece of the drywall sandwich by a few inches; the way wood floors would interlock (Figures 4 & 5).

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Acoustics:

On a single stud wood wall, resilient channeling clearly produces the highest STC.
The following design options are for Single wood stud walls with 3-1/2" R11 insulation taken from the link,
http://home.insightbb.com/leowebb9/Acoustics.html

1/2" drywall on each side: STC 38-39
A double layer of 1/2" drywall on the noisy side or both sides: STC 41
1/2" drywall with one side mounted to resilient channeling: STC 50
A double layer of drywall on one side mounted to resilient channeling: STC 52-53

Side notes: http://www.awci.org/cd/pdfs/7504_b.pdf
Substituting 5/8" thick for 1/2" thick gypsum board varies from an improvement between only 1 and 2 STC independent
on whether wood or steel studs are used or whether sound absorption is present between the studs.

The significance of two layers versus one layer on one side only is much more important.

2x4 studs, no insulation, 1/2" gypsum board on both sides = STC 33-35
2x4 studs, no insulation, 5/8" gypsum board on both sides = STC 36
2x4 studs, 2" insulation, 1/2" gypsum board on both sides = STC 38-40

Insulation yields improvement of 5 STC for wood
- 2x4 studs, no insulation, 1/2", adding 1 addt'l layer on one side only = STC 37
- 2x4 studs, no insulation, 1/2", adding addt'l layer to both sides = STC 37

3-5/8" steel studs, no insulation, 1/2" gypsum board on each side = 37
3-5/8" steel studs, no insulation, 5/8" gypsum board on both sides = STC 39
3-5/8" steel studs, 2" insulation, 1/2" gypsum board on each side = STC 46

Insulation yields improvement of 9 STC for metal
- 3-5/8" steel studs, no insulation, 1/2", adding 1 addt'l layer on one side only = STC 50
- 3-5/8" steel studs, no insulation, 1/2", adding addt'l layer to both sides = STC 51**
  - It seems I can attain the effects of steel studs with resilient channel on wood studs
    - Wood stud + Resilient channel = Metal stud

2x4 studs, insulation, 24" o.c., Green Glue & added Drywall to One Side = STC 52 (gain of 12)
2x4 studs, insulation, 24" o.c., Green Glue & added drywall to Both Sides = STC 55 (gain of 15)
- Taken from http://www.greengluecompany.com/benefit/how-to-use-it

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** Feel free to point out design errors at any time **

Questions:
Phew, now that you know what the thing looks like, I only have a few

If I use DD on one side, I'm going to likely need something on the other side of the insulation, and I'm wondering how important the weight of that material is.
With the heavy drywall on the outside, if I have a piece of osb board on the inside, would it work like drywall, or is there some material property of gypsum that
would make it worth the weight (literally)?

a. If DD on one side and a single layer of material on the other is the answer, which side should I put the DD on? The inside or the outside? I could
see the high quality silicone weatherstripping and/or interlocking method working both ways.
If one side has resilient channeling, adding a second layer of drywall on either side only yields 2-3 STC higher. Should I go the route of one on each
side to reduce weight, or would anyone strongly suggest a second layer on the resilient channel?
Everything seems it would be a lot easier if I could just attach the drywall to the stud without resilient channeling.
Should I bite the bullet and go with metal?
- Metal studs seem to produce the same STC rating as wood studs + Green Glue & wood studs + resilient channeling

I know I'm coming out of left field with my radical ideas of portable AND soundproof *cue blasphemy, and I'm also a complete beginner in this field and only started learning
about STC, GFR, and the different wall techniques a few days ago so please go easy on me.

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NBPk402

· #2 · Dec 6, 2015

Is this room a brand new construction, or a re you converting an existing room?

When we built our HT...we went with a room with in a room to get the most out of the setup.

We removed all the drywall in the room including the ceiling, and then built the new walls. The walls I believe were about 6" from the original walls. We then stuffed R19 insulation into the new wall cavities (the old walls still had their original insulation). In hindsight I would go with Roxul R60 or R80 Rockboard...it is more expensive but much easier to work with in my opinion.

We isolated the walls from the ceiling and only used Hat channels on the ceiling. For the ceiling we ran 2 layers of Drywall alternating the direction of the panels, and used Green Glue between the layers. For the walls we used one layer of OSB, and then used Green Glue for the Drywall layer.

We used Roxul R60, and R80 for all our sound panels, and bass traps.

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Jimstr

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 6, 2015

ellisr63 said:
Is this room a brand new construction, or a re you converting an existing room?

In hindsight I would go with Roxul R60 or R80 Rockboard...it is more expensive but much easier to work with in my opinion.

For the walls we used one layer of OSB, and then used Green Glue for the Drywall layer.

It's a brand new construction, I'll be putting it in a corner, up against the concrete basement walls as shown in figure 1 there.

Would you use roxul only because it's easier to work with or do you think it would've helped to stop sound

Any issues with the OSB board?

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NBPk402

· #4 · Dec 6, 2015

Jimstr said:
It's a brand new construction, I'll be putting it in a corner, up against the concrete basement walls as shown in figure 1 there.

Would you use roxul only because it's easier to work with or do you think it would've helped to stop sound

Any issues with the OSB board?

Are you going to attach your wall to the concrete wall or are you going to space it out from the concrete wall?

I think it would also stop the sound from escaping better too. 4" of R80 gives you R160 (if I am calculating that right), which is way better than R19. The OSB works out fine... I was told it is a good idea to use it for the first layer on the walls if you might hang anything from the walls (other than light pieces like you would in a home).

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Jimstr

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 6, 2015

I am going to separate the wall from the concrete about 1.5 inches.

I don't have 4 inches to work with for roxul and don't want to compress it. I've seen multiple threads rating GFR and most signs point to equivalency between R13 and heavy batts like R80 as far as soundproofing goes. I usually only hear the heavier stuff used for bass traps.

Can anyone weigh in on the wood studs + resilient channeling vs metal studs? T will not be a double wall, nor staggered, but with the info I posted above it seems metal single stud walls yield the same STC as a decoupled wall due to resilent channeling? I just want to know if I'm going to have to put resilent channeling on all of my modules or if metal studs would do the trick.

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Talley

· #6 · Dec 6, 2015

Here's my thoughts.

Instead of drywall use quietrock... 1 sheet is like 3-5 sheets of drywall. I'd highly suggest using OSB/plywood on the interior panels and glue/screw it to every stud. Don't worry about any isolation devices or trying to to floating floors... You want that room to be as solid and ridgid as possible.

You don't build a sub box and not brace it as you want it to be as ridgid as possible and the studio is the same way.

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NBPk402

· #7 · Dec 6, 2015

Jimstr said:
I am going to separate the wall from the concrete about 1.5 inches.

I don't have 4 inches to work with for roxul and don't want to compress it. I've seen multiple threads rating GFR and most signs point to equivalency between R13 and heavy batts like R80 as far as soundproofing goes. I usually only hear the heavier stuff used for bass traps.

Can anyone weigh in on the wood studs + resilient channeling vs metal studs? T will not be a double wall, nor staggered, but with the info I posted above it seems metal single stud walls yield the same STC as a decoupled wall due to resilent channeling? I just want to know if I'm going to have to put resilent channeling on all of my modules or if metal studs would do the trick.

If you are using wood for the walls you will have 2x4s won't you...there is 4" available then. They also sell 3" if you don't want to double up 2" pieces.

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NBPk402

· #8 · Dec 6, 2015

Talley said:
Here's my thoughts.

Instead of drywall use quietrock... 1 sheet is like 3-5 sheets of drywall. I'd highly suggest using OSB/plywood on the interior panels and glue/screw it to every stud. Don't worry about any isolation devices or trying to to floating floors... You want that room to be as solid and ridgid as possible.

You don't build a sub box and not brace it as you want it to be as ridgid as possible and the studio is the same way.

From what I have read Quietrock is no better than using 2 sheets of drywall with GreenGlue, and is more expensive too.

I disagree on not using isolation devices. If you read up on Sound room designs you will see that you need to isolate, and you want the walls to flex, not be rigid. Rigid is only good if you are using cinder block walls, and then you end up with other problems because it is too rigid. If you do not isolate your walls, and or make them too rigid you will transmit the sound through out your house.

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Gregr

· #9 · Dec 7, 2015

Jim,

I read your intentions are to make your HT/Studio portable. I have a few thoughts and a few concerns about your preliminary plans. I would like to see you with a finished product that is infinitely useable/adaptable/configurable and practical. I've read some great suggestions already... and I really like your ideas.

I once worked with a very well respected cabinet maker who once told me, "If it can be broken, it will be broken. Always build-in quality that lasts so nobody ever gets hurt"

I mention the above so you might consider this... each layer of .5" x 6' x 10' sheetrock will weigh approximately 150lbs plus screws and joint compound++. Also, .5 x 6' x 10' of OSB is just under 100lbs (particle board is even heavier). Not to mention the 6' x 10' size even if you have 5 strong men with healthy backs and a sheetrock carry tool each - may easily be walked thru a basement level exterior door today but can you say for sure where you might want to set up your studio in the future. If you can answer these thoughts/cautions to your satisfaction then by all means continue as before.

I do have some build ideas though, some mentioned already. First a 2'x 10' metal framed panel built around a 2 x 10' Roxul 60 insulator panel (120lbs) covered on one surface with 1/2" OSB ripped to a 24" width (33lbs) giving the required 1/8th" seperation between OSB sheets. Next apply green glue (as mentioned above) or guietglue to the OSB surface then apply 1/2" 2 x 10" quietrock (again as mentioned above) add 160lbs for the quietrock or 60lbs for 1/2" x 2' x 10' sheetrock. Also try applying two thin beads of quietglue to metal studs before connecting.

Don't forget a roll or two of closed cell foam ,"sill seal" to seperate the metal studded bottom plates from the concrete. Also, apply a sheet of polyurethane over the concrete wall to act as a vapor barrier (overlap poly over and under the stud wall panels so as to isolate the sound wall from moisture always present in concrete).

Best Regards and Happy Listening

Greg

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Jimstr

Discussion Starter · #10 · Dec 7, 2015 (Edited)

Talley said:
Here's my thoughts.

Instead of drywall use quietrock... 1 sheet is like 3-5 sheets of drywall. I'd highly suggest using OSB/plywood on the interior panels and glue/screw it to every stud. Don't worry about any isolation devices or trying to [do] floating floors... You want that room to be as solid and ridgid as possible.

Drywall is $8 for a 4'x8' sheet while quietrock is $50 per 4'x8' sheet. My local supplier has damaged quietrock (broken edges, nbd) available for $20 per piece. Still quite the price jump. I do have OSB/plywood sheets and could definitely use that for the interior panels, but still deciding, thanks for the input.

ellisr63 said:
From what I have read Quietrock is no better than using 2 sheets of drywall with GreenGlue, and is more expensive too.

I disagree on not using isolation devices. If you read up on Sound room designs you will see that you need to isolate, and you want the walls to flex, not be rigid. Rigid is only good if you are using cinder block walls, and then you end up with other problems because it is too rigid. If you do not isolate your walls, and or make them too rigid you will transmit the sound through out your house.

Doesn't resilient channeling do to wood what is already inherent in metal; give it flexing and isolating qualities? If I continued on the path of using wood, I will *definitely* have to get resilient channeling, but I'm wondering if I can skip that by using metal.

Gregr said:
Jim,

I read your intentions are to make your HT/Studio portable. I would like to see you with a finished product that is infinitely useable/adaptable/configurable and practical. I've read some great suggestions already... and I really like your ideas.

I once worked with a very well respected cabinet maker who once told me, "If it can be broken, it will be broken. Always build-in quality that lasts so nobody ever gets hurt"

I mention the above so you might consider this... each layer of .5" x 6' x 10' sheetrock will weigh approximately 150lbs plus screws and joint compound++. Also, .5 x 6' x 10' of OSB is just under 100lbs (particle board is even heavier). Not to mention the 6' x 10' size even if you have 5 strong men with healthy backs and a sheetrock carry tool each - may easily be walked thru a basement level exterior door today but can you say for sure where you might want to set up your studio in the future. If you can answer these thoughts/cautions to your satisfaction then by all means continue as before.

I do have some build ideas though, some mentioned already. First a 2'x 10' metal framed panel built around a 2 x 10' Roxul 60 insulator panel (120lbs) covered on one surface with 1/2" OSB ripped to a 24" width (33lbs) giving the required 1/8th" seperation between OSB sheets. Next apply green glue (as mentioned above) or guietglue to the OSB surface then apply 1/2" 2 x 10" quietrock (again as mentioned above) add 160lbs for the quietrock or 60lbs for 1/2" x 2' x 10' sheetrock. Also try applying two thin beads of quietglue to metal studs before connecting.

Don't forget a roll or two of closed cell foam ,"sill seal" to seperate the metal studded bottom plates from the concrete. Also, apply a sheet of polyurethane over the concrete wall to act as a vapor barrier (overlap poly over and under the stud wall panels so as to isolate the sound wall from moisture always present in concrete).

Best Regards and Happy Listening

Greg

Thank you for the input, Greg. As far as infinitely useable/adaptable/configurable and practical, I'm not sure about infinitely, but I'm shooting for the practical part.
The weight is undoubtedly an issue, and that's why I don't want to use more than two sheets per module (my metal stud vs wood stud + resilient channeling problem). A 4'x8' sheet of drywall at 5/8" thick is 2.2-2.3 pounds per square foot. My modules are 4x6 meaning that each 4x6 piece would be roughly 52-55 lbs. Two sheets is roughly 104-110 pounds, plus, 3.625" x 1.25" x 8' (25G) Galvanized Metal Stud [~2.5 lbs each] means about 10 pounds, so total... lookin at 120 lbs + insulation. I believe that's reasonable for 2-3 men (could even use wheeled device as it's in modules).

ahh, now we continue,
So you're suggesting the metal studs then? Thank you and I'll definitely try the quiet/greenglue on the studs, seems like a good idea. Also, thanks for the sill seal, tip. I was wondering what to do there.

Since it is a single studded wall, I have a few options & I'm not sure which to pick:
metal stud, 1 piece of drywall on each side (lighter)
metal stud, 2 pieces of drywall on one side+GG, osb on the other side(heavy, more soundproof)
wood stud, one piece of drywall each side, resilient channeling on the interior side. (difficulty, weight)
I feel metal is the way to go too, simply hesitant to buy it all when I have the wood already free. It would clearly be worth it for soundproofing and isolation, simply looking for a few opinions before I go and spend the $€£¥

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NBPk402

· #11 · Dec 7, 2015

Metal is takes up less space, and will flex...both of which are a plus IMO.

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Talley

· #12 · Dec 7, 2015

ellisr63 said:
From what I have read Quietrock is no better than using 2 sheets of drywall with GreenGlue, and is more expensive too.

I disagree on not using isolation devices. If you read up on Sound room designs you will see that you need to isolate, and you want the walls to flex, not be rigid. Rigid is only good if you are using cinder block walls, and then you end up with other problems because it is too rigid. If you do not isolate your walls, and or make them too rigid you will transmit the sound through out your house.

What I mean is think of building an entire room as a box to go within another room. This dedicated box you want as rigid as possible... but place this box on isolation materials to isolate it from the other room. Ideally you would have dedicated walls/ceilings and the only piece would be touching the floor.

What you should stay away from are rubber isolators on drywall from the stud within the dedicated box and/or the flooring from the floor joists. I've read this can cause more problems than not by enhancing room modes. Keep the dedicated box strong/stout and then isolate where it sits.

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NBPk402

· #13 · Dec 7, 2015

Talley said:
What I mean is think of building an entire room as a box to go within another room. This dedicated box you want as rigid as possible... but place this box on isolation materials to isolate it from the other room. Ideally you would have dedicated walls/ceilings and the only piece would be touching the floor.

What you should stay away from are rubber isolators on drywall from the stud within the dedicated box and/or the flooring from the floor joists. I've read this can cause more problems than not by enhancing room modes. Keep the dedicated box strong/stout and then isolate where it sits.

My HT is a room within a room, built from the info i got from various Soundproofing books i have read on building Studios.

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Building my first studio! It has an interesting challenge (portability), please help?

Jimstr

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