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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi to everyone,

I searched all the forum and I could not find specific buying advice for

JVC projector:

I came across a store which sells new JVC X30 and new JVC X9 for the

same price (I'm not too interested in 3D and I watch only documentaries

and movies).

The main differences between the X30 and X70/X90 are contrast and 4K.

Since the X9 has better contrast than the X30, and both don't have 4K, I

would assume that the X9 is better suited to my needs than the X30.

Please advice and comment! Help me chose what's better for my needs.

Thanks in Advance!
 

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Never trust a manufacturer's stated contrast ratio. I'd go and check reviews of the products and see what is said about the contrast ratio. The X9 is the same price as the X30 because it is a year older model and it was stopped being made last February. Why don't you ask the dealer to hook them up for you and compare them? If it were me I'd take the X30.
 

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Just a heads-up: the JVC x30 is also the JVC RS45. Same exact projector, only difference is that the RS 45 has a gold ring around its lens. Other than that, the Rs45 is simply the model sold to professional installers. All that being said, I was able to find the rs45 for about $500 cheaper than the x30.

I added a thread to home theater shack comparing the Rs45 to the Panasonic 7000u (if you want to read my impressions).

At any rate, it's awesome!

Before you buy the x30... Google RS45 and see what you can find.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
@ Mechman,
I appreciate the advice. The dealer doesn't have an X9 to hook up next to it or I would already have tried!
So, next best thing after my eyes are the eyes of forum members.
Can I ask you why you made that recommendation?
Please consider this order of priorities:
50% Colour balance - neutral - real skin tones, whites
20% Contrast and black level
10% definition
10% analog feel
5% features
3% sports & TV in general
2% 3D
I watch almost exclusively films and documentaries in HD, possibly in 1080p.

Since the X70 colour balance is extremely good, almost exceptional (and very similar to my DPX1200) and 50% of my decision is based on colour balance then if other JVC projectors use the same colour chip, I am inclined to consider them very carefully before preferring the X30.
In fact, what are the improvements that the X30 brings over the X9/X7?
I have heard that the following use the same colour chip as the X70:
HD750, HD950, X7, X9 and, of course, the X90.

And, one more question, do you think that a professional adjustment could bring the colours of the X30 to match (or very near) those of the X70?

@27dnats.
Thanks for taking time to help me. I will read your review but I am very interested in the JVC line as I can obtain incredible discounts.
I know about the denominations RS45/X30, but my problem is not RS45 or X30. In this same post I just replied to mechman and from there you understand what is the advice that I am looking for

Again, to both you and mechman, I really appreciate your time and expertise! You maybe saving me thousands of dollars... Thank you!
 

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Just as an FYI, the x30 has a paired-down color management system as compared to the x70/x90. Although in all of my review searches, I didn't read anyone really complaining that the x30 was missing something... Seems like the consensus was that, in the $3000-3500 price range, the x30 had a fantastic picture.
 

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I wish I could help you out with comparisons of the x30 to the x7/x9...
I can't.

I was able to get the guy that runs projectorreviews.com to respond to some emails. Perhaps you should try and contact editors at some of the big projector review sites/home theater mags? They might have some better answers for you...
 

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Never trust a manufacturer's stated contrast ratio.
JVC does not use a dynamic iris and then massively fudge the numbers like every other manufacture on the market. Their stated lumens and contrast ratios are exactly what you will get in calibrated mode sir.
 

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^^^ I would agree with this. Here's my question: The rs45 claims a 50000:1 contrast ratio. It looks incredible to my eye. The x70 is claiming a ratio of 70000:1. How visible is this difference? At some point, do these ratios get to a point in which they are moot?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@ 27dnast
Although in all of my review searches, I didn't read anyone really complaining that the x30 was missing something... Seems like the consensus was that, in the $3000-3500 price range, the x30 had a fantastic picture.
And I agree! Not fantastic, AMAZING picture! Really! But not as good colour balance and whites as the Yamaha DPX series.

^^^ I would agree with this. Here's my question: The rs45 claims a 50000:1 contrast ratio. It looks incredible to my eye. The x70 is claiming a ratio of 70000:1. How visible is this difference? At some point, do these ratios get to a point in which they are moot?
Read more: Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com - Reply to Topic
Again, I agree. I saw the X70 and X30 and X90 side by side, on 3 identical screens, same size, in 2 different set ups:
1. Factory settings
2. Professionally calibrated
In both cases the contrast gain was almost imperceptible. Perhaps in the shadows you could pick up a little bit more detail. But by little bit I really mean almost nothing more. Watching the same scenes (Gladiator in the arena and under the colosseum) you can barely notice any contrast or blacks difference.
What you can notice are 2 items:
a) Colour balance and whites are identical in X70 and X90 and not as good in X30 (but still excellent).
b) 4K really does make pixels disappear (even close up I could barely make out pixels) and this gives a very analogue feel to the image. The closest I've ever seen to a Barco 3 tubes or celluloid projection.
Factory calibration against professional calibration (yesterday they gave an other hour of calibrated viewing experience) only increases (not decrease) the differences.

So, given:
- the above
- how much importance I give to colour balance and whites
- my budget limitations
I am now considering more and more to go for an X7/X9 over the X30.

But I wish that someone from this forum could confirm to me that the colour balance of the X7 and X9 are the same as the X70 and X90.

As you said, the marginal contrast gain is almost unnoticeable to my eyes. I know that I would lose an amazing analog feeling chosing last years, non E-Shift, devices, but... beggars can't be choosers! I can't have everything!

IMHO the real BIG difference between X70 and X30 is this incredible analog feel and colour.

@TypeA
Again, I completely agree. Try to calibrate the black and white levels on a Sony VW95 at the same time! You cannot. And calibrating one influences the other so, in the end, any contrast calibration on a Sony VW95 must include a tiny bit of guess work...
Oh... and please, please, please... do not refer to me as "sir"! You are the knowledgeable and experts here. I am very lucky to have your advice and help. So, I should be calling you sir and not the other way around!

For everyone, my name is Tommaso and I'm from Italy (nobody is perfect!) but live in japan! :)
 

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^^^. Great info - thanks for relaying you observations!

I wonder if the advantage of the 4k-e shift is lost as you move to a proper seating distance from the screen??

Did you read the link I included? I was hoping the following might help answer your question:

"Colours also look more punchy yet still more natural than they did on the X7 too, and detail levels look outstanding. We wouldn’t say that there seems to be more detail on the X70, though; as we’ve hopefully established now, the e-Shift ‘4k2k’ technology as explored in the limited content of a preview scenario seems to work more to create a smooth analogue image finish rather than to add tangible extra image detail."


Anyhow, good luck. You might need to buy both units (say, an x7 and a x30) and have your own comparison! ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I wonder if the advantage of the 4k-e shift is lost as you move to a proper seating distance from the screen??
Depends on your eyesight. With my glasses on the major difference is that the X70 seems... analog and the X30 seems electric/digital. In fact, or because of this, the X30 may even seem sharper. But as soon as you pause you can see hair and other details on the X70 that you just barely can on the X30

Did you read the link I included? I was hoping the following might help answer your question:
"Colours also look more punchy yet still more natural than they did on the X7 too, and detail levels look outstanding. We wouldn’t say that there seems to be more detail on the X70, though; as we’ve hopefully established now, the e-Shift ‘4k2k’ technology as explored in the limited content of a preview scenario seems to work more to create a smooth analogue image finish rather than to add tangible extra image detail."
Yes, I read it and, incidentally, the analog description part is the same if you compare the X70 and X30. I guess that I now have to compare the X7 and X9 with the X30 to establish which has better colour balance.

Even if the X7 and X9 are half way between the X70's and X30's colour balance, whites and skin tones, I would still prefer the X7 and X9. As I said, contrast, blacks and definition are way sufficient already as they are on the X30, X7 and X9 without the need to go to the extreme of the X70
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I wonder if the advantage of the 4k-e shift is lost as you move to a proper seating distance from the screen??
Yes, it is noticeable if I wear my glasses, up to about 3 meters. After it's just a general "feeling" but you can't actually really benefit from the E-shift after that distance because even the X30 (or any other D-ILA) becomes less digital at those distances.
 

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Awesome and rare you are able to view these and directly compare prior to purchase, that should really help in making your decision.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
@ TypeA,

In the same store (www.avac.co.jp) I can view, side by side, same screen and size, the new Sony 1000, 95, X90, X70, X30, top of the line Mitsubishi, Panasonic and many more. Some 15 devices all set up ready to be compared in the High Quality theatre, about another 10 in the medium end theatre and about as many in the low end theatre. And they have 7 stores like this in Tokyo alone. Of course this is one of Tokyo's best 4 or 5 Home Theatre stores but in general if a store does not let you try a device you simply complain and walk away. Sure enough the next week you will find the device on display and test.

This is standard customer service for everything: from ice creams to bluetooth earphones, from mobile telephones to printers, from cars to wax candles... basically there is amazing service in Japan for just about anything.

To the point that if you do not like a dish in a restaurant, it is not considered weird to ask to try another dish and send back the first one. And you only pay the one you like.

The point is that this is a fundamentally honest and extremely respectful country where cheating, breaking the law, taking advantage, cutting corners etc is practically non existent. People are honest in their hearts and if you say that you do not like a dish, nobody would even imagine that you just want to not pay for it.

You can imagine Italians like me (or US for that matter) how stunned and amazed are at the beginning. And, of course, I cannot deny that I did take advantage at the beginning. But then you realize that cheating people who trust you is appalling for yourself even if nobody ever will realize it.

I don't know how to explain it: Japanese culture managed to make even a bad Italian (ok, not so bad...) becomes abiding. It's incredible how powerful it is to be surrounded by honesty and trust... you simply can't cheat... Ok, maybe you won't become as close minded and straight as good Japanese are, but you certainly go a looooooong way towards improving yourself. It's like a clean city: nobody throws paper or trash on the floor because... well... just because it's clean and subcontiously you feel obliged to comply. I often thought if honesty and peace could be exported in the rest of the world. Here it is contageous... imagine if pacifism too were to be contagious...

When you buy second hand (Japanese never like to) not only you get 1 yr shop warranty but, more important you won't get a lemon. If a device has a malfunction or defect it is clearly stated. Always. In 11 years here I was never sold a second hand lemon!

Sorry for the OT. But in short: yep, very lucky indeed if you're prepared to pay 55% government taxes plus 10% local taxes and pay an Oppo93 1,250$
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
X30, New = 2,500$ (but rapidly, very rapidly dropping further - next month should be able to pick up a new one for 2,200/2,300USD)
X30, JVC refurbished (w/ full JVC 2 yr warranty) = 2,200$ and dropping fast.
X70, New = 6,700$ beyond budget
X70, Ex dealer demo = 5,700$ w/ old lamp beyond budget
X9 New = 3,800$ beyond budget (price dropping fast)
X9, JVC refurbished (w/ full JVC 2 yr warranty) = 2,800$
X7, New = 2,500$ (dropping fast, on a par w/ new X30)

And used (even one week old) are 50-70% of these prices, 1 yr warranty and no lemons (read my reply to TypeA)

I missed a used X70 (2 weeks old) at 3,800$ by a few days (it sold yesterday) because I was posting here...
 

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@ TypeA,

In the same store (www.avac.co.jp) I can view, side by side, same screen and size, the new Sony 1000, 95, X90, X70, X30, top of the line Mitsubishi, Panasonic and many more. Some 15 devices all set up ready to be compared in the High Quality theatre, about another 10 in the medium end theatre and about as many in the low end theatre. And they have 7 stores like this in Tokyo alone. Of course this is one of Tokyo's best 4 or 5 Home Theatre stores but in general if a store does not let you try a device you simply complain and walk away. Sure enough the next week you will find the device on display and test.

This is standard customer service for everything: from ice creams to bluetooth earphones, from mobile telephones to printers, from cars to wax candles... basically there is amazing service in Japan for just about anything.

To the point that if you do not like a dish in a restaurant, it is not considered weird to ask to try another dish and send back the first one. And you only pay the one you like.

The point is that this is a fundamentally honest and extremely respectful country where cheating, breaking the law, taking advantage, cutting corners etc is practically non existent. People are honest in their hearts and if you say that you do not like a dish, nobody would even imagine that you just want to not pay for it.

You can imagine Italians like me (or US for that matter) how stunned and amazed are at the beginning. And, of course, I cannot deny that I did take advantage at the beginning. But then you realize that cheating people who trust you is appalling for yourself even if nobody ever will realize it.

I don't know how to explain it: Japanese culture managed to make even a bad Italian (ok, not so bad...) becomes abiding. It's incredible how powerful it is to be surrounded by honesty and trust... you simply can't cheat... Ok, maybe you won't become as close minded and straight as good Japanese are, but you certainly go a looooooong way towards improving yourself. It's like a clean city: nobody throws paper or trash on the floor because... well... just because it's clean and subcontiously you feel obliged to comply. I often thought if honesty and peace could be exported in the rest of the world. Here it is contageous... imagine if pacifism too were to be contagious...

When you buy second hand (Japanese never like to) not only you get 1 yr shop warranty but, more important you won't get a lemon. If a device has a malfunction or defect it is clearly stated. Always. In 11 years here I was never sold a second hand lemon!

Sorry for the OT. But in short: yep, very lucky indeed if you're prepared to pay 55% government taxes plus 10% local taxes and pay an Oppo93 1,250$

Oh wow. Now Ive lived or extensively experienced; Panama, Honduras, Puerto Rico, St Thomas, Spain, Saudi Arabia, UAE and eight United States spanning from Alaska to Florida but Ive never experienced anything like the society you describe! :unbelievable: That sounds like a very cool society indeed and thanks for sharing. :TT
 

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Wow. Those prices are easily better (with the exception of the x30) than what is available here in the States. Looks like you have a big decision. Both the x7 and x9 are currently selling for about $4500 plus. I was able to buy an x30 (RS45) for about $2700.... The x70 and x90 were way too far out of my price range.

Have you thought at all about lens memory? I only ask b/c that was something very important to me (I have a 2.40:1 screen). I believe the x7 and x9 lack lens memory?


As you've seen for yourself, the x30 has a super-duper picture. Hard to go wrong with any of them. Perhaps you can save a little coin and go with the least expensive option and put the $ toward some other equipment (or a bunch of blu rays! ;-)

Just consider yourself lucky to have all of those options available at your finger tips!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
TypeA,

That's why I've been living here for the past 11 yrs.
Sometimes it is hugely frustrating (close minded and rigid to the point that procedures become more important than the objective they tender to) and ridiculous rules and policies but, in the end, Tokyo is the safest city I know of, super clean, super efficient, best service in the world and easy for witty minds to put their ingenuity to work and be admired as a "solution deliverer" only because they can not think outside the box.
You see 10 year old children going to school alone, crossing the roads, girls can move alone at midnight anywhere in Tokyo, and a 94% criminal conviction rate.
An oasis if you can put up with extremely close minded and inflexible procedures and rules.

Go into a shop, show a mobile and ask: "Do you have a battery charger for this mobile phone, here?"
They will answer: "Sorry, no. We don't have it here". And that's it. No more comments.
"Do you know where I could find one?"
"Yes, third floor, mobile telephones department, on the left, 3rd shelf from the top, next to the new Samsung Note mobile".
So there are pros and cons.

For example, last week I was discussing colours and skin tones. So I asked the shop clerk to set the both projectors' colours to look as natural as possible.

After 2 days, after receiving advice here, I went back to ask for a professional calibration and the colours were much better. I asked why he had not shown this calibration to me before and he replied: "because you asked me for natural setting, not natural calibration. So I set the colours as they are natural for JVC.

GRRR...!!!! I was about to explode! We had been talking for 1 hour about skin tones and whites and he executed my request "literally", without questioning the motive behind my request, even though we had been discussing for hours!

In this Japan drives you mad! I swear, sometimes it makes my blood boil. And it's the same in business, finance, everywhere.
 
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