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Elite Shackster
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Discussion Starter #1
I maybe frowned on here with this one, but I just cant seem to care about the issue. Perhaps I'm overly cynical, but I just see every argument as an excuse to tax or charge us for something, and I often struggle to take the subject seriously, or listen to the politicians when I all I see are agendas to pick our pockets further. How exactly does taxing us more fix the issue anyway.

If you can help me see the error of my ways (if this is the case), then I'm all ears, but at the minute the subject really seems to rub me up the wrong way.
 

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People are screwing up the beautiful world we have at an alarming rate. There are so many environmental issues that I think global warming is overemphasized. People argue against it because they are unwilling to sacrifice for the good of our species.

Desertification, Oxygen Depletion, Global Warming, Diminishing Fresh Water and Deforestation are others.
 

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I think it's a form of desensitization that some of us are feeling, after all we're bombarded by the media, from what we should do differently to increasing taxes. Then we're hit by advertising for the latest 'stuff' that further the problems with the environment during their manufacture and use. I sometimes feel like owning/having 'stuff' really troubles me, , I lived out of my truck and tent for a summer:dumbcrazy: believe it or not, it may have been the happiest time in my nearly 40 yrs (don't tell my wife:whistling:), but it definitely was the healthiest and least stressed.

Fresh water has been a growing problem as it's sources have been tapped, period. Many of which have been detrimental to other animals (think dams). Even developed nations are scratching their heads on this one as populations increase.
 

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For me the problem is that it is not something I can see. For instance, deforestation, fresh water and even whaling is something I can see and say 'yes, this is clearly a problem.' Global Warming seems more like a bogeyman to scare us out of more money for more taxes.
 

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Elite Shackster
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Discussion Starter #5
The thing that gets me, is that some areas of the scientific community state that climate change happens all the time, and the current one could be happening all the same without us being here. If someone overtly disagrees with the government and come out to challenge them on it they usually end up "stepping down".

We get charged through the nose on anything that can be considered a green issue, but exactly how do our taxes help, they usually end up in the military budget and burning up more fossil fuels than you or I could in a lifetime. Then, here in the UK, if you have a big car you get charged more road tax than someone with a small car, even if the big car owner only does a couple of thousand miles a year and the small car owner does tens of thousands. On a well known TV program over here they even compared a Prius to a BMW M3. The sent the Prius round their track as fast as they could for a few laps, and just followed in the big engined M3, and the M3 was the more economical vehicle using less fuel. So they proved its as much about how you drive as what you drive.

For me, non of the governments arguments wash, they just use it as an excuse to bleed more cash from are disposable cash pot we use to actually try enjoy ourselves, and mine is pretty much gone as it is. If the issue is so great, just turn off the oil pumps, they obviously wont, so why keep banging on about it as nothing is going to change. Again, it just points to me as another excuse to try justify taxing us more, at least here in the UK anyway.
 

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Elite Shackster
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7,142 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
For me the problem is that it is not something I can see. For instance, deforestation, fresh water and even whaling is something I can see and say 'yes, this is clearly a problem.' Global Warming seems more like a bogeyman to scare us out of more money for more taxes.
The whaling isnt a climate issue, but is a real issue i understand, and I dont think we have any business messing with the whale population at all, but its my opinion I guess. I know humanity could get along just fine without whale anyway.

Fresh water issues are a funny one in the UK. We get so much rain its unreal, it rains all year round very regularly, and in winter it mostly rains instead of snowing. Its not uncommon for us to get 2-3 days of rain straight in winter and spring. When we finally do get some heat, a few days of sunshine and we get hose pipe bans and are told there is a water shortage. Given we are also a small island, and its impossible to be any more than a couple hundred miles from the sea at absolute maximum, it makes the issue even more of a joke for us in the UK. We really shouldnt have any water supply issues, but we do :doh:.
 

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Drinkable water is a real concern. 'Green' mass desalinization development could change the landscape of the world (think Dune scale). We'll see.

I know you guys (UK) are taxed so much more than the US for fuel, as almost every country. Probably 300-500% more! Personally, I gotta pay federal taxes today (gotta get to it), but I wish we had a flat sales tax on everything!!! If someone buys goodies: let'em pay, gotta upkeep that sports car: let'em pay, gotta yacht or mansion: let'em pay, gotta 10 kids: let'em pay. Simpler, less loopholes. The facts gathered by WHO show our health care (US) is not the best for infant mortality, delivery mortality, teen pregnancy, lifespan, etc So a flat income tax for medical coverage would be just fine, imo. , I'm for increasing medical schools and reducing students' costs, I would have loved to go and I was capable, but not funded or encouraged. Increase supply, decrease demand: salary goes down, care becomes more affordable. Now maybe taxes can go down...just a little :clap:

After researching on alternative building and green building, I realize that we in the US are pretty slow and unwilling to accept other ideas. For example, I live in the southwest, where we have over 300 days sushine a year, yet only a handful of homes in my city use passive solar to heat their home or handle hot water needs, it really is a shame and not expensive to implement (as some green designs are), but it reduces the home cost by a grand or two (ooh ahh), while it would pay off many times for itself in the ownership of the home. A tragedy that is pretty common.

And for those that don't care for their neighbors' well-being types that subscribe to "I work harder and should keep what I earn, not share with others" philosophy, well, they can just save their money or they can emigrate somewhere else.

Time to do taxes...:wave:
 

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Global warming or as it is known as now Climate change is defiantly a concern but to make a house green that was not designed for it is very costly and unfordable to most including me. Solar panels dont work well in the winter months here so 4 months of the year they just sit there.
The best I can do for the environment is use CFL/LED lighting, replace all my windows and keep the heat turned down in the winter and dont use AC much in the summer. We already only have one vehicle some families have 3 or 4 and all are in use at the same time! Public transit needs allot of improvement before I can use it to get to my current job so thats not an option.

I think we all need to do our part but the cost of doing that just does not help the cause.
 

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The whaling isnt a climate issue, but is a real issue i understand, and I dont think we have any business messing with the whale population at all, but its my opinion I guess. I know humanity could get along just fine without whale anyway.

Fresh water issues are a funny one in the UK. We get so much rain its unreal, it rains all year round very regularly, and in winter it mostly rains instead of snowing. Its not uncommon for us to get 2-3 days of rain straight in winter and spring. When we finally do get some heat, a few days of sunshine and we get hose pipe bans and are told there is a water shortage. Given we are also a small island, and its impossible to be any more than a couple hundred miles from the sea at absolute maximum, it makes the issue even more of a joke for us in the UK. We really should have any water supply issues, but we do :doh:.
I merely meant whaling as in a general problem, not so much a climate issue but an issue that needs attention in general.
 

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Elite Shackster
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Discussion Starter #10
I know you guys (UK) are taxed so much more than the US for fuel, as almost every country. Probably 300-500% more! Personally, I gotta pay federal taxes today (gotta get to it), but I wish we had a flat sales tax on everything!!! If someone buys goodies: let'em pay, gotta upkeep that sports car: let'em pay, gotta yacht or mansion: let'em pay, gotta 10 kids: let'em pay. Simpler, less loopholes. The facts gathered by WHO show our health care (US) is not the best for infant mortality, delivery mortality, teen pregnancy, lifespan, etc So a flat income tax for medical coverage would be just fine, imo. , I'm for increasing medical schools and reducing students' costs, I would have loved to go and I was capable, but not funded or encouraged. Increase supply, decrease demand: salary goes down, care becomes more affordable. Now maybe taxes can go down...just a little :clap:
Oh man dont get me started on taxes. We pay about $1.90 a litre for fuel, and sometimes more. We get about 25% taxed on our income, then 17.5% tax on everything we purchase. Then the Government adds what they call duty onto items they dont think the tax covers enough, like cigarettes, smokers have to pay about $8 for a pack of 20 cigarettes because the duty keeps on increasing. The trend for tax to follow demand is joke. The government taxes anything popular, so people move onto something less taxed and suddenly its whacked up come next budget.

Money seldom seems to solve anything these days, yet the government (which is almost bankrupting our island as it is) keeps quoting climate as a reason to take more of it. They wont put laws across for new build houses to be greener yet sting us for using more gas etc.

Would it be that hard for a law to pass that all new houses had to make the most of natural resources. So for the UK, solar panels as standard, a wind generator on the house, and the roof catch and direct rainwater in house to a purified tank. Yes it would drive the cost of new homes up, but at least we can then see where our money is going, instead of paying more, getting less, and the climate issue still getting worse.

I dont buy the climate issue, yet its shoved in my face constantly with no real proof the issue is our fault, is solvable, or anything real is going to be done to ensure its as little to do with us as possible anyway. Whatever the case, I just cant seem to either care, or get past my gripes on the issue to actually start looking at it rather than the issues I have with the reporting of it.
 

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Global warming or as it is known as now Climate change is defiantly a concern but to make a house green that was not designed for it is very costly and unfordable to most including me. Solar panels dont work well in the winter months here so 4 months of the year they just sit there.
The best I can do for the environment is use CFL/LED lighting, replace all my windows and keep the heat turned down in the winter and dont use AC much in the summer. We already only have one vehicle some families have 3 or 4 and all are in use at the same time! Public transit needs allot of improvement before I can use it to get to my current job so thats not an option.

I think we all need to do our part but the cost of doing that just does not help the cause.
Making a house more green is not as expensive as one might think. Improving roof insulation, door and window seals, and blackout curtains in summer are pretty easy. Replacing windows is nice, but sometimes you can simply improve the seals around the windows.

The nice thing is that improving insulation and seals provides for better sound quality too.

Solar isn't usually cost effective.
 

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Premium Member
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Making a house more green is not as expensive as one might think. Improving roof insulation, door and window seals, and blackout curtains in summer are pretty easy. Replacing windows is nice, but sometimes you can simply improve the seals around the windows.

The nice thing is that improving insulation and seals provides for better sound quality too.
Done all that as well, Replacement of windows is very necessary in our climate as the winters are quite cold and old windows just suck the heat outside and are more than just drafty. In the summers the sun is up till 11pm and is back up at 4am so the heat on the west side of the house can get unbearable, Good two or triple pane low E windows are a must.
 

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I don't know the extent of man-made contributions to climate change. There is some reason to suspect that it may be significant in terms of the amount of change occurring in the short term, but there is enough reason to be doubtful as well. What we do know is that the climate has changed many times far more than any of the suggested effects that man may be creating. This says to me that regardless of the cause, we need to be prepared to be dealt a shifty hand by nature and need to be adaptable to deal with it.

It seems to me that if we took the perspective that resources such as oil and gas are finite, which, in spite of the rhetoric that there is not a shortage, remains true, it is not hard to see that it makes sense to conserve in any way that we can. This makes the wastefulness of modern society seem to me to be foolish, and climate change simply the wrong place to make the argument for changing the way we do things.
 

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Solar isn't usually cost effective.
True, photovoltaic solar use is not cost effective, however, passive solar is and nearly all homes where the sun shines will benefit immensely, even on partly cloudy days, in heating homes and hot water.
 
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