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Discussion Starter #1
All,
i have completed mixing up some N8 Scorpion and am getting ready to buy my screen materials but i have some questions.

1. can i paint blackout cloth for the actual screen? this will be a fixed screen so no worries about rolling up the screen. i think i remember reading where someone used blackout cloth for the base of their screen. if not i am looking at building a drywall on frame screeen :ponder:
2. will i need to prime the blackout cloth with some KILZ primer?

Thanks
Bill :T
 

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Bill,

I know this thread is a few weeks old and you may have already painted, but here's my take. I've painted 5 BOC screens and whether you spray or roll, the first coat MUST be rolled. If you spray the first coat, the fibers in the BOC will pop and you will fight it to no end until you roll.

The rolling action seems to press and glue the fibers down and the BOC becomes quite smooth. After that you can use what ever method you see fit.

Rob
 

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I can't believe I missed this thread. :doh: Since Highside has actually painted multiple BOC screens he is a good source of info. Thanks Rob! :T

All BOC isn't the same, some might have a problem with fibers wanting to pop up after priming and others might not. If fibers do pop up it is my understanding that they can be sanded down by using a medium or fine grit sanding sponge, but I have never tried this yet. Have you tried this Rob?

The other thing to be watchful of is having a visible texture difference in the BOC; this might not be much of a problem if using a flat paint, but if you are using a paint with metallics in it (such as our custom mixes here) the different textures will show up in the final screen.
 

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All BOC isn't the same, some might have a problem with fibers wanting to pop up after priming and others might not. If fibers do pop up it is my understanding that they can be sanded down by using a medium or fine grit sanding sponge, but I have never tried this yet. Have you tried this Rob?
Here's my experience in a nutshell.

-I've only used the Roc-Lon BOC. (triple pass with a rubbery side). About $5 a yard.

-I paint on the rubbery side and STILL get fibers if I spray.

-Sanding with ANY type of medium (I've tried just about anything a former woodworker can) will produce a smoother surface....BUT, the fibers have ALWAYS returned on the next sprayed coat. My assumption is that sanding does nothing more than cut off the fiber, which then grows back with the next coat.

-One rolled coat, yes one, will lay those fibers down and essentially glue them to the fabric surface to never pop up again. This method will leave a very smooth surface to work with. No less smooth than a primer applied with a 1/4" nap roller to MDF or a wall.

I can add more detail as needed or answer any questions. Hopefully this thread will stick around and people can reference it or post to it as needed in the future.

Rob
 

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-Sanding with ANY type of medium (I've tried just about anything a former woodworker can) will produce a smoother surface....BUT, the fibers have ALWAYS returned on the next sprayed coat. My assumption is that sanding does nothing more than cut off the fiber, which then grows back with the next coat.
Very interesting, I would have thought the fibers would be gone with a light sanding (like after raising the grain with a water-based stain in woodworking), but it seems not! Very good to know! I know this might not be practical for most people, but I wonder how a scraper would work? Anyway, it's easier to just roll the first coat of primer if spraying. :T

I can add more detail as needed or answer any questions. Hopefully this thread will stick around and people can reference it or post to it as needed in the future.
It can be added to the forum index.
 

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Very interesting, I would have thought the fibers would be gone with a light sanding (like after raising the grain with a water-based stain in woodworking), but it seems not! Very good to know! I know this might not be practical for most people, but I wonder how a scraper would work? Anyway, it's easier to just roll the first coat of primer if spraying.
That's what I assumed as well. (Coming from a woodworking background). We always raised the grain on all of our cabinets and furniture, but after 4 light coats of a UPW concoction on an older version screen, it still raised the fibers on every coat.

I had decided to give up on spraying BOC so I rolled a single coat of the same "mix" and it smoothed out perfectly. I then sprayed with great success.

I think rolling lays on a much thicker coat almost like spakling would. Get into the pores so to speak.

Also, I think this can be a very practical solution to many.:T

Rob
 

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Discussion Starter #8
thanks guys, i have had my screen up for a couple of weeks unpainted and i am going to roll on the 1st coat of KILZ this week. it has looked good with just the BOC so i am looking forward to getting the KILZ on there and then painting the N8 Scorpion mix i made up...
 

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Let me know what you think of going from BOC to N8. I just did the same and now I'm thinking it is a slight shade too dark for my personal preference. Just curious to hear your opinion when you go to Scorpion what your first impression is. I also came from BOC and maybe just got too used to it.
 

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Let me know what you think of going from BOC to N8. I just did the same and now I'm thinking it is a slight shade too dark for my personal preference. Just curious to hear your opinion when you go to Scorpion what your first impression is. I also came from BOC and maybe just got too used to it.
Pyro,
was your N8 the scorpion mix or just a neutral gray?
 

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I wanted to do the Scorpion mix but it was a bit too many ingredients for me to gather, so I was looking for something a bit easier. I found the Elektra N8 that was in development and figured I would give it a go. It's basically C&S with a little bit of a N6 paint.

I think I wish I had made either the N8.5 shade, or even just kept the C&S. I'm still debating it, and actually need to go back to Joanns to get a new piece of BOC so I can compare what it was. I'm thinking it may just be my imagination as I'm getting used to the projector. As with anything, it looks great initially, but then as you get more accustomed to it, you start nit picking details. And I suppose that's why some are on their 10th shade of paint mix :coocoo: :eek: !

I do admit, the blacks are incredible compared to the old BOC or Kilz. However, I wasn't happy with the blacks on the old BOC, so I'm still trying to find my equilibrium.
 

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I started re-calibrating black/white last night and noticed that something was really screwed up. Good to hear that it wasn't totally my imagination. Turns out since I went to Windows 7, my HTPC Blu-ray player was very screwed up. It was clipping even 5% black to 0, which explains why everything was so dark. So again the blacks were great, just too much of it on the screen! So I'll partially retract my comments since things were really screwed up due to my equipment problems. I should have it properly calibrated tonight.
 

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pyro,

After you get your PJ calibrated, could you give a brief synopsis of your screen "experiments" time line?

I.E. where you started with your impressions to where you are now with your impressions.

Thanks,
Rob

P.S. What PJ do you have?
 

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I haven't been keeping track of times for an accurate timeline, but I'll just make up some :D

I bought a Mits HC3800. This is my first PJ. I previously had a 50" Panasonic Plasma (well its being neglected behind the screen). I started building the 1x4 frame and knew I was going to put up some BOC and then decide where to go from there. It allowed me to use either, BOC, Kilz or any paint mixture you can imagine.

Black Out Cloth
I can't really review the BOC so much because I was so impressed with the projector. I think I watched 2-3 movies on it for a total of about 12 hours. Unfortunetly my HTPC Blu-ray was terribly mis-calibrated, but I did not know it yet. The cable box was working fine.

Kilz
I then decided I wanted to go with the Elektra N8 and primed the BOC with Kilz to get ready for it. I had the Kilz up for another 5 days or so with another 10 hours. This is when I started noticed two things: The "black" bars at the top were illuminated way too much. This is when I decided that needed to be improved. Forget color accuracy, brightness, viewing at angles, etc, those are all minor compared to this. Even though I was watching in total darkness, the white ceiling still reflected enough light to need the gray screen. I also started suspecting something wrong with the Blu-ray HTPC, but ignored it.

Elektra N8
I didn't have the most shocking experience the first time I went to this screen. In fact, this is when I really noticed the HTPC was screwed up. We watched a very dark movie and even dark grays were just clipped to black. I got more annoyed with trying to find out what the problem was, than to be excited about the new screen. One thing was clear. Black was now BLACK. This was immediatly apparent, and I was pretty suprised how much improved it really was. This was me experiencing it first hand what I've been reading for weeks.

One thing I should point out is with the BOC and Kilz I could really see the outline of the black bars image. With the new Elektra N8 screen, you can't. It almost blends and was questioning whether I still even need the black velvet frame. If you go up closely you can see it, but its not noticable at normal viewing distance.

Once I finally fixed this, I was excited again. BTW, my HTPC was set to 0-255 instead of 16-235 output. Not sure why that screwed things up, but I couldn't even see 6% gray. Things looks great, and the colors are extremely vibrant. Star Trek looked amazing. The PJ is extremely sharp and I'm truly impressed. Everyone that comes over, talks about how clear it is and how vibrant the colors are. There are truly impressed (and jeolous).

I don't even have any problems with the 6 recessed lights I have. I have some shades that can block out most of the sunlight, which is more than adequate for general viewing.

Not sure what you were looking for, but hopefully I answered it?
 

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Not sure what you were looking for, but hopefully I answered it?
You answered well Daniel Son....:clap:

Not sure is you read my earlier posts but I have done 5 BOC screens and as of this writing, my current screen is none other than BOC with Kilz. This is the first time I've primed with it. I've done metallic, not metallic, N8 equivalent dark and even UPW with pearl:yikes:

It's rather coincident, but without me asking first, you answered the EXACT question I was after. You are/were, like me, very concerned about those Kilz induced gray(black) bars on top and bottom.:dontknow:

So my questions now are...

Would you still want to go to the N8.5 version?

Do whites appear to be dingy at all? (very subjective, I know)

Can you see ANY graininess or sparkles at all? (from seated position)

Did you roll or spray?

Thanks Pyro,
Rob
 

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Sorry to take so long to get back to this. I had to watch a new movie to answer correctly! Been working on the black velvet border so haven't had time to watch any movies.

Would you still want to go to the N8.5 version?
I am very indecisive about this. It's really a toss up. I would never re-paint what I have now just to change the 0.5 gray. You can see the difference side by side, but the difference is slight.

Do whites appear to be dingy at all? (very subjective, I know)
Agree its subjective, but in my opinion I tend to agree with whoever here keeps saying that the eye is very sensitive to black levels, but out eye adjusts to the maximum white level available. I think they also explain that much better than I just did. But I don't think they are dingy.

Can you see ANY graininess or sparkles at all? (from seated position)
No. Only if you walk up to about 2 feet away from the screen can I see the reflective specks, which I think is kind of cool personally. I just watched "The Hurt Locker" yesterday and the film grain is much more prominient than any graininess from the screen. Therefore I think any graininess the screen may have is somewhat neglible.

Did you roll or spray?
Roll. I didn't want to get involved in more tools and learning how to spray. I don't think I'm picky enough to see the difference.
 

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Roll. I didn't want to get involved in more tools and learning how to spray. I don't think I'm picky enough to see the difference.
This is yet another huge hype... Unless a person is like my wife and the worse painter in the world and someone who globs on the paint to the point it runs down the wall, door, trim... whatever is being painted- There is nothing wrong with rolling. Sure spraying does lay down a nice smooth surface, but it isn't necessary. Let me restate that, it's not necessary unless the paint application is specifically spray only.

I have always said this and fully stand behind it still... if you can paint a room in your house you can paint a screen.
 
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