I wish... Paradigm Servo 15 Version 1.
The end plan are 2 F12 or F12G's as long as the Canadian dollar gets better.
Chane A2rx-c 5.0 Loudspeaker Review Discussion Thread
Chane A2rx-c 5.0 Loudspeaker Review Discussion Thread
Chane Music & Cinema has introduced the third evolution of their popular Arx series, now going by the alpha numeric '"Arx-c" designation. Using technologies not typically found at these prices, and utilizing an internet direct business model which allows customers to avoid paying dealer mark up, Chane looks to offer the public exceptional value for the money.
21 - 40 of 66 Posts
The end plan are 2 F12 or F12G's as long as the Canadian dollar gets better.
There's certainly nothing wrong with that subwoofer.I wish... Paradigm Servo 15 Version 1.
Given what you have now, I'd suggest the E/F15HP instead. It would better match the capabilities of the Paradigm.The end plan are 2 F12 or F12G's as long as the Canadian dollar gets better.
Thanks for the kind words, Lou. Sorry, I do not know much about wall mounts, and would not want to be responsible for a 27 lb. brick falling on someones head! :whistling:Your impressive review is much appreciated! The Chane A2rx-c doesn't seem to have any wall-mount provision. Approaching 30+ pounds, I understand why unicorn mounts need not apply. Can you please share, or can you recommend a wall mount for surround purposes? Maybe something similar to Willis7469's clamp-type mounts (discontinued)? TIA!
Great read Dennis! Looks like the A2rx are for real!
This was a great read. Made this Columbian Coffee much more enjoyable.
Thanks, guys!Excellent review, Dennis. Thank you for bringing the A2 system to life for us.
Thank you, Jon. It was my pleasure to review such a fine loudspeaker.I just emailed Dennis thanking him for his effort and commending him on a particularly clear and pleasant review. It's one thing to find favorable remarks about your product in the press, but it's another to see such a nicely written and presented piece. Thanks again, Dennis. This is genuinely good reporting.
Thank you, Bryan!Great review, Dennis! I enjoyed reading it very much, and I'm glad to hear that the Chanes are living up to their reputation, especially the reputation they have on this forum.
It's interesting to note how at times, with some recordings, you thought perhaps the tweeter was held back just a smidge, but later on other recordings decided maybe it was right where it should be. Did you feel the slight lack of resolution was the result of a tweeter intentionally brought down in level as part of the design, or was the tweeter itself not quite capable of the last bit of resolution regardless of its level relative to the rest of the system?
I have to say, I labored over the wording of the Conclusions first paragraph. In a short, there is nothing wrong with the planar nor the resolution of the A2rx-c. The A2rx-c does come very close the best available. I'm just trying to remain objective and do not want people thinking they can buy a reference grade monitor for $229/each.
I have not experienced the level of realism and resolution the A2rx-c 5.0 set delivers in it's price range, though, and I have laid ears on many, many loudspeakers. I hope this perspective adds clarity and helps to answer your question.
Let me put it another way. The A2rx-c 5.0 does such a great job, not only in it's price range, but as an all around communicator of music and movies, that I am buying the review set.
I'll do my best to relate what I've read and how I understand it. Disclaimer: Accuracy is not guaranteed.My heart wants the A5rx-c but I heard the A3rx-c for some reason are the best for 2 channel music..
Crossovers are necessary for most properly functioning multi-driver speakers (2 way, 3 way designs). Crossovers help to integrate the sound between different drivers but they also interfere with other aspects of proper audio reproduction. More complex designs and greater numbers of crossovers needed in a speaker can cause increasing amounts of audio degradation. A 2 way speaker is going to need fewer crossovers than a 3 way.
So, specifically relating to the Chane A3rx-c, the Chane A5rx-c, and the older ARX A5...
The Chane A3rx-c is a 2 way design, both of the A5's are a 3 way design.
Compared to the A3, both of the A5's 3 way design is said to ever so slightly hinder some of the audiophile characteristics of the sound. On the other hand, the A5's additional drivers help to deliver louder sound with less distortion.
The difference between the older ARX A5 and the Chane A5rx-c...
The newer A5rx-c received an updated tweeter. This new tweeter improved sound in at least two ways..
1) it is capable of handling more power with less distortion.
2) it has a different bottom end roll off which integrates better with the mid freq driver. This allowed for a redesign to a simpler crossover resulting in a more audiophile sound.
Thanks for the review.
And special thanks for detailing the whole experience.
Not being much of a believer in extended break-in periods I must say you have the patience of a saint too.
Once a speaker's mechanicals are exercised a little bit (<1 hour) it should be good to go.
There is no way I would have invested 30+ hours into "break-in", that is just ridiculous.
There is always the proposal that it's not the speaker changing its sound it's the listener's ears becoming accustomed to the speakers.
In the end I am glad you had an enjoyable experience.
And special thanks for detailing the whole experience.
Not being much of a believer in extended break-in periods I must say you have the patience of a saint too.
Once a speaker's mechanicals are exercised a little bit (<1 hour) it should be good to go.
There is no way I would have invested 30+ hours into "break-in", that is just ridiculous.
There is always the proposal that it's not the speaker changing its sound it's the listener's ears becoming accustomed to the speakers.
In the end I am glad you had an enjoyable experience.
I've listened to several new speakers breaking in and agree with you that usually it only takes a few hours, some don't need any break in (or at least I couldn't hear any change)....Once a speaker's mechanicals are exercised a little bit (<1 hour) it should be good to go.
There is no way I would have invested 30+ hours into "break-in", that is just ridiculous.
There is always the proposal that it's not the speaker changing its sound it's the listener's ears becoming accustomed to the speakers....
But if you think this applies to the Chanes, then you haven't broken in one of these. It is absolutely not a case of becoming accustomed to the speakers, the speakers sound is changing.
Most people say they sound very good out of the box and just get better over the 40 hr break in. I think my A1's & A5's sounded terrible before break in (the A5's were noticeably worse). There is just something 'off' about the sound.
In a few weeks I should be breaking in my mom's new A2's before I give them to her. For break in, I set them up as my bed room speakers so I do listen to them, but instead of turning them off when doing something else, I leave them running with some complex audio at a moderate volume. They run continuous for a week.
Glenn, your assessment is a perfect description of the way I understand it, too.I'll do my best to relate what I've read and how I understand it. Disclaimer: Accuracy is not guaranteed...
Thank you for the feedback, I figured I wasn't completely botching it up but wasn't 100% sure on everything. And I didn't feel confident enough to get into the nitty gritty of explaining the details properly so I just gave general ideas.
You bet, thank you, Charlie.Thanks for the review.
And special thanks for detailing the whole experience.
It is hard for me to say how long break in will take, until I feel it is actually completed. The planar tweeter does not have a lot of excursion, perhaps like many low excursion drivers, it takes a bit of time to loosen up?Not being much of a believer in extended break-in periods I must say you have the patience of a saint too.
Once a speaker's mechanicals are exercised a little bit (<1 hour) it should be good to go.
There is no way I would have invested 30+ hours into "break-in", that is just ridiculous.
There is always the proposal that it's not the speaker changing its sound it's the listener's ears becoming accustomed to the speakers.
In the end I am glad you had an enjoyable experience
I do try to keep in mind that it could be me that is "breaking in", as well. Possibly a combination of the two. In my experience, the A2rx-c leaf tweeter is one smooth puppy after it and/or I have acclimated.
As an aside, I bought "The Incredible Hulk" on Blu-ray to exercise my system, and invited a friend over last night. I ran the whole movie at -2 dB, and we were both amazed how loud, while maintaining that smoothness, the planar could get. As I stated in the review, the dual woofers never seem to come anywhere near their limits, either.
It's not easy to communicate this every time, but while SplitGap (XBL2) may sound like just another trademark, when you can virtually double the midwoofers' linear excursion and cut distortion about in half, it can be audible.I ran the whole movie at -2 dB, and we were both amazed how loud, while maintaining that smoothness, the planar could get. As I stated in the review, the dual woofers never seem to come anywhere near their limits, either.
The tweeter is comparable: Roughly four times the surface area of a conventional dome grants a proportional reduction in distortion.
While the overall design is ultimately responsible for the presentation in the room, hopefully it's been given something important to work with.
I'll expound a bit concerning my earlier comments about break in.
This is why I believe the speakers were changing, and not that I was growing accustomed to the sound.
For me speakers can be divided into 2 main groups based on sound quality...
1) a speaker having a high quality sound but I just don't care for the sound signature. This speaker, I can get accustomed to over time.
2) a speaker that has low quality sound (or sound that is just 'wrong' or 'off') and I don't like it because it's wrong. This speaker, I can never get accustomed to over time.
Out of the box, my Chanes had an off sound that just doesn't sound right, it's a sound I know I couldn't learn to like. But over time I can hear the Chanes sound melding and getting more and more right.
This is why I believe the speakers were changing, and not that I was growing accustomed to the sound.
For me speakers can be divided into 2 main groups based on sound quality...
1) a speaker having a high quality sound but I just don't care for the sound signature. This speaker, I can get accustomed to over time.
2) a speaker that has low quality sound (or sound that is just 'wrong' or 'off') and I don't like it because it's wrong. This speaker, I can never get accustomed to over time.
Out of the box, my Chanes had an off sound that just doesn't sound right, it's a sound I know I couldn't learn to like. But over time I can hear the Chanes sound melding and getting more and more right.
I will throw in my 2¢ worth on break-in.
My own experience has been that new speakers go through so many adjustments, re-positionings, experiments with EQ or room correction, playing with room treatment, maybe trying a different amp, re-configuring other parts of the system... IOW, so many variables while deciding how to best use them and assess them, that I would have no way of isolating a subtle change and calling it break-in. I can't help but wonder if this might apply to most listeners.
On the other hand, I have learned to trust Dennis's ears more than just about anyone else's I know, so if he says they took awhile to break in......:huh:
My own experience has been that new speakers go through so many adjustments, re-positionings, experiments with EQ or room correction, playing with room treatment, maybe trying a different amp, re-configuring other parts of the system... IOW, so many variables while deciding how to best use them and assess them, that I would have no way of isolating a subtle change and calling it break-in. I can't help but wonder if this might apply to most listeners.
On the other hand, I have learned to trust Dennis's ears more than just about anyone else's I know, so if he says they took awhile to break in......:huh:
I'm more than a little OCD and am still turning over Bryan's question in my head. I've come to a conclusion that I can finally be happy with, and have edited it into the review.
"Is the A2rx-c the greatest speaker in the world? No, but I feel it is one of the world's great speakers at its price."
Thank you for helping me come to that conclusion, Bryan. I think that is a fair assessment.
"Is the A2rx-c the greatest speaker in the world? No, but I feel it is one of the world's great speakers at its price."
Thank you for helping me come to that conclusion, Bryan. I think that is a fair assessment.
The decision to move lots of air certainly does give the A2rx-c a marked advantage. The -2 dB setting for that particular movie is arbitrary, and as with most TV viewing I do, level is set to bring the volume level of spoken word up to a realistic level, around 70 dB or so. Whatever happens after that, explosions, gunfire, whispers, background sounds, should be rendered correctly as well, if the studio did their job right.It's not easy to communicate this every time, but while SplitGap (XBL2) may sound like just another trademark, when you can virtually double the midwoofers' linear excursion and cut distortion about in half, it can be audible.
The tweeter is comparable: Roughly four times the surface area of a conventional dome grants a proportional reduction in distortion.
While the overall design is ultimately responsible for the presentation in the room, hopefully it's been given something important to work with.
I've been living with the A2rx-c set for over 3 months now, and am still amazed at its ability to deliver proper, distortion-free dynamics. The huge soundstage presentation is icing on the cake.
I would like to know how does the A2rx-c with a port plug sound and perform vs open ported. And could anyone post any measurements of ported vs plugged?
The reason is my HT setup I have my TV mounted on the wall and the center is under it on the fireplace mantel. So the center speaker has to be up against the wall with just enough room for the wires.
And if I plugged the center, would I have to plug all the others if I did a 5.2? (Running Dual 18 inch subs).
The reason is my HT setup I have my TV mounted on the wall and the center is under it on the fireplace mantel. So the center speaker has to be up against the wall with just enough room for the wires.
And if I plugged the center, would I have to plug all the others if I did a 5.2? (Running Dual 18 inch subs).
If you are crossing a speaker over above the port's tuning, boundary reinforcement at lower frequencies will be greatly reduced, be it the center or the others.I would like to know how does the A2rx-c with a port plug sound and perform vs open ported. And could anyone post any measurements of ported vs plugged?
The reason is my HT setup I have my TV mounted on the wall and the center is under it on the fireplace mantel. So the center speaker has to be up against the wall with just enough room for the wires.
And if I plugged the center, would I have to plug all the others if I did a 5.2? (Running Dual 18 inch subs).
I did try subjective 5.0 and 2.0 listening with ports plugged, then open. With movies, ports open (@ 60 Hz XO) sounded best. With music, ports closed (@ 50 Hz XO). This is in my room, yours will probably differ. Measurements will tell us little unless performed outdoors, and that will also change once brought indoors.
No, you would not necessarily have to plug all speakers should the center be plugged. My advise would be to plug the ports and let your subwoofers do their job. Of course, experimentation is key, and I value highly the ability to try both.
Red, the difference between the two modes is that the bass reflex, open-port mode makes each of our four models relatively full-band speakers (lacking the bottom octave plus a little). The rolloff is the typical ~4th order function, meaning -24dB/octave. Deep(est) bass; fast roll-out.I would like to know how does the A2rx-c with a port plug sound and perform vs open ported.
Sealing the cabinet creates a somewhat overdamped classic 2nd order function, or -12dB at right about where you'd want it for a 80Hz standard subwoofer response. Less bass but a shallow roll-out.
In-room effects are all but guaranteed to swamp these respective functions at a microphone to the point of unrecognizability, but what counts is that these inherent power functions remain and are important for effective, powerful subwoofer meshing. Either can work with a sub, but as I think Dennis found, you don't always want the speaker's full bass register to get there.
Try the ports plugged and play with the sub settings in both processor and active subwoofer. For the perfectionist there's more to it than that (and we've prepared a user guide going into a little more detail) but most users of the A1rx-c and A2rx-c are probably going to try them in sealed mode.
The five channel A2rx-c system in the review, to me at least, sort of calls out for the standard 60-80Hz highpass and a good likelihood of not needing (or wanting) the extra bass extension and more abrupt roll-out used for larger models in 2.0 setups.
Quick brush-up on subwoofers, crossovers, and power responses:
Assuming a standard 80Hz lowpass subwoofer frequency setting, and assuming a 4th order LR crossover function, the complementary satellite setting is naturally a symmetrical 80Hz 4th order LR highpass. A system arranged around this relatively standard function sums to flat response in both SPL (on axis) and power responses.
How do we get it? Subs are commonly able to be set this way - see the knobs on the amplifier plate.
This leaves us with getting a 4th order highpass out of the combination of acoustical and electrical functions in our satellite speakers and crossover. Simply put, just sum them up.
Plugging the ports renders the satellite speaker close enough to a 2nd order acoustical highpass at the desired frequency that we've gotten half of our target. We need only to find a 2nd order, 80Hz electrical function in the processor.
That's really it. The biggest hurdle is, you guessed it, 2nd order highpasses in AVR and processor crossover control panels aren't standard. They're not rare, but you won't find them in everything. And, of course, the other exception is that in a world of affordable speaker and room correction firmware, you may not have to resort to a classic setup routine like this one at all.
But if possible, try 1) a stopped-port or other 80Hz sealed satellite speaker system coupled with 2) a common 80Hz, 4th order, LR subwoofer setup and 3) a simple 2nd order electrical crossover to the satellites set around 80Hz. Tune to taste.
Done well it can really add apparent acoustical power and a perfectly seamless, inaudible subwoofer transition to the system. (Years ago I set up a system involving big Acoustat electrostatic panels and twin custom bandpass subwoofers like this and we found the big panels sounded like they went all the way to 20Hz, which was an uncanny effect. Acoustically, the subwoofers just disappeared...)
Assuming a standard 80Hz lowpass subwoofer frequency setting, and assuming a 4th order LR crossover function, the complementary satellite setting is naturally a symmetrical 80Hz 4th order LR highpass. A system arranged around this relatively standard function sums to flat response in both SPL (on axis) and power responses.
How do we get it? Subs are commonly able to be set this way - see the knobs on the amplifier plate.
This leaves us with getting a 4th order highpass out of the combination of acoustical and electrical functions in our satellite speakers and crossover. Simply put, just sum them up.
Plugging the ports renders the satellite speaker close enough to a 2nd order acoustical highpass at the desired frequency that we've gotten half of our target. We need only to find a 2nd order, 80Hz electrical function in the processor.
That's really it. The biggest hurdle is, you guessed it, 2nd order highpasses in AVR and processor crossover control panels aren't standard. They're not rare, but you won't find them in everything. And, of course, the other exception is that in a world of affordable speaker and room correction firmware, you may not have to resort to a classic setup routine like this one at all.
But if possible, try 1) a stopped-port or other 80Hz sealed satellite speaker system coupled with 2) a common 80Hz, 4th order, LR subwoofer setup and 3) a simple 2nd order electrical crossover to the satellites set around 80Hz. Tune to taste.
Done well it can really add apparent acoustical power and a perfectly seamless, inaudible subwoofer transition to the system. (Years ago I set up a system involving big Acoustat electrostatic panels and twin custom bandpass subwoofers like this and we found the big panels sounded like they went all the way to 20Hz, which was an uncanny effect. Acoustically, the subwoofers just disappeared...)
Another tool in the bag is moving the subwoofer(s) in time, physically or electrically. I love my passive-pre integrated amplifier, but the AVR's ability to let the subs grab that free front wall boundary reinforcement AND walk them forward electrically in the soundfield relative to the mains has proven invaluable. It can also help phase rotation a bit when high and low pass crossover slopes are disparate.
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