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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
This thread will be about the process of color-correcting the Cream&Sugar™ #2 mix made with the new Craft Smart silver, gold and bronze paints to be neutral in color. This series of posts began in the main C&S™ thread, but were moved here to be more appropriate. - Harpmaker



Has C&S #2 been tested (with the new Silver)?
 

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Re: Cream&Sugar™ - an N9 reflective screen mix.

Has C&S #2 been tested (with the new Silver)?
C&S™ #1, #2 and #3 were all different ways of making essentially the same screen mix. Mixes #2 and #3 were developed since some folks couldn't get the Sherwin-Williams paint used in #1 in anything less than gallons and that makes for an expensive mix when you only need a quart.

The new Craft Smart Silver WILL NOT work to make any C&S mix.

Perhaps I should rephrase that, the new silver will mix with other latex and acrylic paint just fine, but the result of substituting it for the old Craft Smart Metallic Silver will result in a mix (no matter which C&S™ formula you use) that in NOT color neutral and pushes blue. We can't in good conscience recommend such mixes.

If you are thinking about using C&S™ please check out the thread on it's replacement mix C&S™ Ultra.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: Cream&Sugar™ - an N9 reflective screen mix.

Thanks. The reason I asked is that I purchased the supplies at the start of the year. My projector is now mounted (Optima HD180) and MDF sheet in the room and primed. When I went to double check the mix instructions, surprise, mine is the wrong (new) silver. I was curious how much blue push and if the tinted base of #3 with the metallics of #2 would be closer to neutral. The plan was to mix some C&S then darken to N8 or so (Elektra™).
 

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Re: Cream&Sugar™ - an N9 reflective screen mix.

Thanks. The reason I asked is that I purchased the supplies at the start of the year. My projector is now mounted (Optima HD180) and MDF sheet in the room and primed. When I went to double check the mix instructions, surprise, mine is the wrong (new) silver. I was curious how much blue push and if the tinted base of #3 with the metallics of #2 would be closer to neutral. The plan was to mix some C&S then darken to N8 or so (Elektra™).
OK, I see where you are going with this. Let me give it a shot and see how balanced I can get a #3 mix with the new silver by adding CSMG (gold) and CSMB (bronze). This should work, but it will darken the mix which is OK since you were wanting to go darker anyway by adding a little N6 neutral gray (Elektra™). I'll make some test chits today, but even a test chit must dry for 24 hours before we can measure the color of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Re: Cream&Sugar™ - an N9 reflective screen mix.

OK, I see where you are going with this. Let me give it a shot and see how balanced I can get a #3 mix with the new silver by adding CSMG (gold) and CSMB (bronze). This should work, but it will darken the mix which is OK since you were wanting to go darker anyway by adding a little N6 neutral gray (Elektra™). I'll make some test chits today, but even a test chit must dry for 24 hours before we can measure the color of it.
That would be great. Kilz primer makes a functional screen but really lights up the room. I have less than 50 hours on my bulb (closer to 25) so I have a little time before attempting any calibration.
 

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Re: Cream&Sugar™ - an N9 reflective screen mix.

ram484, what exact paints are you using to make C&S #3? I'm especially wondering about the Craft Smart paints. Do the gold and bronze paints have the new red Craft Smart label on them or haven't you gotten them yet? If you haven't gotten them yet hold off awhile, there may be a better way to adjust the mix.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Re: Cream&Sugar™ - an N9 reflective screen mix.

ram484, what exact paints are you using to make C&S #3? I'm especially wondering about the Craft Smart paints. Do the gold and bronze paints have the new red Craft Smart label on them or haven't you gotten them yet? If you haven't gotten them yet hold off awhile, there may be a better way to adjust the mix.
Yes - all my CS paints have the new red label (Gold-CS110, Silver-CS111, Bronze-CS112). The plan is to use Valspar interior flat Ultra White (I will be rolling). I have been waiting to buy the Valspar and N6 until it was time to paint. Michael's had a sale on the metallics at the beginning of the year so I got all three. Are you thinking a tinted base is the best way to adjust?
 

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Re: Cream&Sugar™ - an N9 reflective screen mix.

Yes - all my CS paints have the new red label (Gold-CS110, Silver-CS111, Bronze-CS112). The plan is to use Valspar interior flat Ultra White (I will be rolling). I have been waiting to buy the Valspar and N6 until it was time to paint. Michael's had a sale on the metallics at the beginning of the year so I got all three. Are you thinking a tinted base is the best way to adjust?
OK, I was approaching the problem assuming you were going with C&S™ #3 (using a tinted base and just the silver).

While my samples aren't old enough to properly test yet I can see just by eye that what I did (using the tinted base AND silver, gold and bronze ala #2) has over-corrected the mix.

I'll mix up some C&S™ #2 with the new Craft Smart paints and then color-correct it.

Just a note to others following along or running into this series of posts in the future - the mix that will result from color-correcting C&S™ mixes using the new Craft Smart paints will be TOO DARK to really be called C&S™ mixes.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Re: Cream&Sugar™ - an N9 reflective screen mix.

OK, I was approaching the problem assuming you were going with C&S™ #3 (using a tinted base and just the silver).

While my samples aren't old enough to properly test yet I can see just by eye that what I did (using the tinted base AND silver, gold and bronze ala #2) has over-corrected the mix.

I'll mix up some C&S™ #2 with the new Craft Smart paints and then color-correct it.

Just a note to others following along or running into this series of posts in the future - the mix that will result from color-correcting C&S™ mixes using the new Craft Smart paints will be TOO DARK to really be called C&S™ mixes.
The mix you made is exactly what I was contemplating. That is what prompted my first question - I was going to compare the measurements to the EasyRGB info (post 34) to get a feel for how well it might work.

I suspect that a measurement of C&S #2 with just the new silver is not very meaningful any more, all three of my metallics have the same label ("distributed by michaels stores" NOT "Plaid Enterprises") so the gold and bronze could be different as well.

The new mix will most likely be on the light side to call say... "Coffee and Sugar" or "Coco and Sugar".

We can move to a new thread if that would be more appropriate.
 

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Re: Cream&Sugar™ - an N9 reflective screen mix.

I suspect that a measurement of C&S #2 with just the new silver is not very meaningful any more, all three of my metallics have the same label ("distributed by michaels stores" NOT "Plaid Enterprises") so the gold and bronze could be different as well.
I believe you may well be right about the gold and bronze paints changing as well. Samples are drying and we will know soon.
 

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The results are in and sure enough, the other Craft Smart metallic paints (gold and bronze) have changed as well as the silver. When the old CS metallic paints were used in the C&S™ #2 formula the result was very neutral in color, but when using the new metallics it's a fair ways off.



I'll work at color-correcting this (it will take less of the gold and bronze than before). Another down side to the corrected mix is that the gold and bronze paints will have to be carefully measured now rather than used in whole bottles. I may also try to correct it without using the gold and bronze paints and go with a single color; we'll see how things progress.
 

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The results are in and I have a new mix that can be made with the ingredients of C&S #2, but using the currently available Craft Smart silver, gold and bronze paints. The mix is actually a N8.4 gray so it no longer should be called a Cream&Sugar™ mix (it's too dark), but it can be used as-is to make a N8.4 screen or it can be darkened to N8 by adding the N6 shade-adjuster from the Elektra™ thread. This has not been tested yet, but I would guess around 2.5 oz. should do it.

The really good news is that none of the paints to make this mix need to be measured (unless you want to darken with the N6 paint). We try to make all our mixes as easy to make as possible without giving up performance.

The mix is:
32 oz. Valspar Ultra Premium Enamel Ultra White (one quart can)
16 oz. Craft Smart Silver (one 16 oz. bottle)
4 oz. Craft Smart Gold (two 2 oz. bottles)
2 oz. Craft Smart Bronze (one 2 oz. bottle)

Behr #1850 can be substituted for the Valspar white if necessary. There are no substitutes for the Craft Smart paints.

Here is the Spectral Reflectance Chart for the mix showing it's neutrality. The amounts of paint are expressed as ratios based on 16 oz. being "1 part".

 

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Thanks Mech. This mix should make an excellent screen, but since it is made with "craft" paints I don't think I would necessarily recommend it unless folks already have the paints on hand. Using craft paints like Delta, FolkArt and Craft Smart have come back to bite screen developers that used them in one form or another; the reason being that such paints can change color, or even manufacturer, at a moments notice because they are only used for "crafts" and are not artist paints which are usually made to far stricter color standards.

Those that have some familiarity with the C&S™ mixes might notice that this mix is really kind of a combination of the C&S™ #1 and #2 mixes. I decided it would be best to stick with the silver, gold and bronze paints to color-correct the mix rather than introduce another color. It worked by increasing the silver and decreasing the bronze content. All three Craft Smart metallic colors have changed from what they were before the new red label bottle was introduced.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Those that have some familiarity with the C&S™ mixes might notice that this mix is really kind of a combination of the C&S™ #1 and #2 mixes. I decided it would be best to stick with the silver, gold and bronze paints to color-correct the mix rather than introduce another color. It worked by increasing the silver and decreasing the bronze content. All three Craft Smart metallic colors have changed from what they were before the new red label bottle was introduced.
This is great... I hope to paint my screen this weekend. I will most likely use 3 oz of the N6 (for ease of measure). From the Elektra™ thread - Has any progress been made with the Lowe's Valspar samplers (I am guessing - Valspar 93679 Paint Sample Satin Base 1)?
 

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This is great... I hope to paint my screen this weekend. I will most likely use 3 oz of the N6 (for ease of measure). From the Elektra™ thread - Has any progress been made with the Lowe's Valspar samplers (I am guessing - Valspar 93679 Paint Sample Satin Base 1)?
Yes, we have an N6 tint formula for use with the Valspar 8 oz. samples. Since so little N6 is used compared to the normal volume of a standard C&S™ mix (this doesn't include C&S™ Ultra) the sample paint being a satin finish won't matter.

N6 tint formula for Valspar 8 oz. samples:

Valspar 8 oz. sample #93707 Base 2
101 - 6.375
107 - 0.625
109 - 0.313
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I painted my screen over the weekend and like the results. Harpmaker would you be interested in doing a Spectral Reflectance Chart of my mix? My "card" is not the best (manila folder) bottom coat brushed with chip brush (small spill cleanup) top coat rolled without good support. The screen is smoother than the "card" but should reflect my final color.
 

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I painted my screen over the weekend and like the results. Harpmaker would you be interested in doing a Spectral Reflectance Chart of my mix? My "card" is not the best (manila folder) bottom coat brushed with chip brush (small spill cleanup) top coat rolled without good support. The screen is smoother than the "card" but should reflect my final color.
I would be happy to give you an SRC of your mix. I'll PM you my address.
 

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I received ram484's sample of this mix and the chart for it is below. Everything looks good! :T The mix is N8.3 on the Munsell Gray Scale.

 
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