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BTW - Michael's has a sale on the Liquitex of buy 2 get 1 free. Additionally they have a coupon on their site for 40% off of a single item. Normally a single tube is $4.99. With the sale and coupon the total for 4 tubes ended up being ~$13, or about $3.25 per tube. Not bad for being able to get in the car and get it instead of having to wait for it to get to your house :)
 

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Discussion Starter #62
So far i'm really liking the C&S Ultra result. It allows me to keep using the low output but quiet & color accurate mode on my projector while still getting a nice punchy picture. Blacks are obviously still gray, but they are certainly acceptable to me. All in all - success!

Thank for sharing these formulas with us here for us to try!
Yep, you gotta wait for the paint to dry before even thinking about projecting an image on it or it will scare you to death! :yikes: Even then it may take the screen several weeks to totally cure since the mix is 50% artist quality acrylic paint, but any blotchiness should go away within several hours of drying.

Thanks for the detailed report!
 

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Ah, the woes of the barely competent. Or perhaps not quite competent.

So to recap, I liked my (original craft pain recipe) cream and sugar screen pretty well. Then the kids gouged it with a light sabre and it took an arrow to the knee. No problem, a little drywall mud, a little sanding, a little Kilz. Find the left over C&S mark 1. Hmmn. Its pink. Stir it. Still pink. Shake it for ten minutes, wipe off the sweat. Still pink. Make a T stirrer and stir it with the drill. Maybe it dries grey. Paint. Nope. Still pink.

OK, paint's old. Make new stuff. Go back to the recipe. What's this? New recipe, old craft paint now unobtainable. Cool, its even lighter now; N 9.3. Sounds pretty light. Get the esteemed, knowledgeable, and very helpful creator to interpret the recipe into HD/Behr terms. Order the liquitex silver and wait for it to come in. Take the silver down to HD, tell them what I want, have them mix it, buy a clean gallon can, put as much of the silver in as I can, pour in the magenta tinted base. Shake for 10 minutes. Hmmmn... looks pink. Take the whole mess home, use 8 ounces of water in 4 aliquots to rinse out all the cans (the quart of base and the two plastic bottles of silver. Put the water in with the mixed paint. All the smaller cans and jars and receptacles look fairly clean. Shake the mix. Its late. Go to bed.

Get up this morning, have a cup of coffee, shake the mix. Hmmmn. Looks kinda pink. Get the drill out, blend it for ten minutes. Maybe not quite as pink, but still... scrape the inside of the can all around with a stick. No apparent clumps. Stir some more with the drill. Maybe it dries greyer.

This stuff is WAY lighter than the C&S mark 1, but unless my eyes deceive me, it still looks kinda pink. Hard to mess up C&S base... but maybe they managed it?

Some of the original C&S is still there on the borders, with the new, not quite dry C&S mk II next to it, and the ugly beige, gastroenteritis yellow wall on the other side (maybe that color is just skewing my cones). I know monitors, cameras, etc. play tricks, but what do y'all think of the tint in this picture? Nasty yellow beige on the left, C&S I in the middle, my new mix of C&S 2 on the right?

If the attachment didn't upload, the picture is also here: http://www.dftaylor.com/beige-c&s-1-vs-2.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #64
This stuff is WAY lighter than the C&S mark 1, but unless my eyes deceive me, it still looks kinda pink. Hard to mess up C&S base... but maybe they managed it?

Some of the original C&S is still there on the borders, with the new, not quite dry C&S mk II next to it, and the ugly beige, gastroenteritis yellow wall on the other side (maybe that color is just skewing my cones). I know monitors, cameras, etc. play tricks, but what do y'all think of the tint in this picture? Nasty yellow beige on the left, C&S I in the middle, my new mix of C&S 2 on the right?
First off, does the C&S™ Ultra area in your photo still look pink to you? Neither C&S™ area looks pink to me, if anything they might be just the smallest tad blue. This of course could be due to the camera (the Nikon D5100 is a nice one) doing it's job and compensating for what it thinks is small color errors. I notice you used AUTO mode for exposure and white balance too.

There is still a chance that your mix really is pinkish and you're not just seeing things. If you want to be totally certain about the color of your mix (or mixes) just make up about 1" square samples of it/them and mail them to me and I will test them with my spectrophotometer and report the results. :T If you want to do that just PM me and I'll send you directions on how to wrap the samples for mailing and give you my address. All it will cost you is a some scrap cardboard or a few 3x5 cards, a white paper towel, a letter sized envelope and a first class stamp. ;)

There is ALWAYS a chance that the paint store messed up the base color. The last I heard HD might also have changed the tints they use, but magenta is kind of a root color, but still... Murphy's Law is always in effect. :doh: Could you look at the can of base paint you are using and post the tint formula here?
 

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Second coat is dry now, looks less pink. The light in that room (walk-out basement) is always funny, (but getting more and more controlled!) and its grey here in SW Colorado today, so hard to say for certain. I basically used the default settings on (my wife's) camera since I don't know any better, though I could probably figure out how to at least white balance it if I tried. The base paint is marked Behr Premium Plus Ultra Pure White Interior Flat Enamel no. 1850, top was marked 5/384th VL (Magenta) Qt 1850 Flat Enamel (in pen). They did mention something about new pigments within the last few months. I think I'll try to send you some sample cards; they might be educational for everyone interested in using HD paints, and I seem to have left my spectrophotometer back in grad school.
 

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I see in the formula that 8oz of water to dilute is suggested when rolling. When spraying, it is suggested that more dilution is needed - just how much more is based on the sprayer used.

As I am using the same sprayer that Don has, I was wondering if there was a more solid amount of water to be used for dilution?
 

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I see in the formula that 8oz of water to dilute is suggested when rolling. When spraying, it is suggested that more dilution is needed - just how much more is based on the sprayer used.

As I am using the same sprayer that Don has, I was wondering if there was a more solid amount of water to be used for dilution?
What you can do is to use a fork as a guide. When the paint falls out from between the tines of the fork fairly quickly, the mix should be thin enough. The Wagner guns come with a tool.

Always test the mix to see if it's thin enough before spraying your screen. Make sure it doesn't spatter out of the gun.
 

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What you can do is to use a fork as a guide. When the paint falls out from between the tines of the fork fairly quickly, the mix should be thin enough. The Wagner guns come with a tool.

Always test the mix to see if it's thin enough before spraying your screen. Make sure it doesn't spatter out of the gun.
Thanks Mech - the fork idea really helped. First coat has been sprayed. For the record, I used 20 oz of distilled water.
 

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I just wanted to take a minute to give you guys props - I just finished hanging my new C&S Ultra screen and popped in the Avengers. I was simply astounded by the result - colors just exploded! I started at the 14th chapter - the start of the NYC destruction sequence - and when I got to the point where Thor showed up, his cloak was such an amazing deep red! And, Scarlett's hair - wow!

I did not pay as much attention to how the blacks looked - I will spend some time later - but I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you guys for a great mix. Plus, it has only been done for less than a day - if it gets better as it cures longer....... :unbelievable:
 

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Discussion Starter #70
Thanks for the feedback Joe. While we don't go fishing for compliments we do appreciate those that come our way. ;)

All water-based paints go on looking milky (which is why you can't judge the true color of a paint in the can or before it dries) and turn transparent as they dry (I mean the binder or vehicle and not the pigment). I don't think you will notice much of a change after a day or two.
 

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Thanks for the feedback Joe. While we don't go fishing for compliments we do appreciate those that come our way. ;)

All water-based paints go on looking milky (which is why you can't judge the true color of a paint in the can or before it dries) and turn transparent as they dry (I mean the binder or vehicle and not the pigment). I don't think you will notice much of a change after a day or two.
OK, thanks Don - I will fire up the PJ again tomorrow to get a good feel for how it will look going forward. I am going to try to get a couple photos up on my build thread tomorrow as well.
 

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Hello.

I've been reading through the various threads of various generations of various paints. :) I do have one question that I was unable to answer...

Currently, I have a mix of Black Widow and a mix of C&S Ultra. Is it possible to mix these two current formulas together to make a variant of Scorpion or am I better off just tinting some of the C&S Ultra to find a middle ground between the two grey extremes?

thanks
-f
 

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Discussion Starter #74
Hello.

I've been reading through the various threads of various generations of various paints. :) I do have one question that I was unable to answer...

Currently, I have a mix of Black Widow and a mix of C&S Ultra. Is it possible to mix these two current formulas together to make a variant of Scorpion or am I better off just tinting some of the C&S Ultra to find a middle ground between the two grey extremes?

thanks
-f
Welcome to HTS! :wave:

Yes, you can mix BW™ and C&S™ Ultra in any proportion you please. Both paints are neutral so the resulting blends should also be neutral.
 

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Thanks so much guys. I plan to paint up a few small panels with the three paint mixes to see which I prefer.

For the sake of curiousity... I have an Optoma H77 which will be shooting a 85"ish image from about 14'. The walls are a warm brown beige not too much darker than BW. Most viewing will be done in a dark room, some times with a little ambient light if we need to find the coffee table. Would BW be a bit dark for this setup or am I better off with a lighter tint?

Thanks in advance.
 

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Thanks so much guys. I plan to paint up a few small panels with the three paint mixes to see which I prefer.

For the sake of curiousity... I have an Optoma H77 which will be shooting a 85"ish image from about 14'. The walls are a warm brown beige not too much darker than BW. Most viewing will be done in a dark room, some times with a little ambient light if we need to find the coffee table. Would BW be a bit dark for this setup or am I better off with a lighter tint?

Thanks in advance.
I estimate that BW with your Optoma and 85' screen will be the perfect match, as long as your bulb is in good condition and has not too many hours of operation.
 

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Discussion Starter #77
Thanks so much guys. I plan to paint up a few small panels with the three paint mixes to see which I prefer.

For the sake of curiousity... I have an Optoma H77 which will be shooting a 85"ish image from about 14'. The walls are a warm brown beige not too much darker than BW. Most viewing will be done in a dark room, some times with a little ambient light if we need to find the coffee table. Would BW be a bit dark for this setup or am I better off with a lighter tint?

Thanks in advance.
Interestingly enough the answer to this question depends on what signal source you are using to send the video to the PJ; a progressive signal produces a much brighter image than one from DVI or an interlaced source. According to projectorcentral your PJ is kicking out 385 lumens with a 480p source and Normal lamp mode (which is the low lamp mode), but only 240 lumens with a 480i source. This means that you would be hitting an 85" 16:9 screen with ~17.8 foot candles of image brightness using a 480p source and only 11.1 fc with a 480i source. All this assumes a new lamp so you can cut those brightness values by about half as the lamp ages giving ~8.4 fc and ~5.6 fc). All that said, the lower limit of watchable image brightness is very subjective, both Mech and I have no problem watching a BW™ screen being hit with a measured 12 fc, but we have had members here complain of a too-dark image if it was much less than 16 fc.

If you were running on Brite lamp mode BW™ could work fine by itself, but if you want to get longer lamp life then I would go with a lighter mix. Since it sounds like you have fairly dark walls and either no, or very limited, ambient light during viewing I would suggest a mix of 33.3% BW™ and 66.6% C&S™ Ultra (assuming you have both paint mixes). This should give you about an N8.4 level of neutral gray, but give you a brighter image than an OTS paint of the same shade.
 

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Don, i 'm a little confused...is this the pj we are talking about?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-H77-projection-calculator-pro.htm

Are you refering to calibrated values?
He's referring to whatever it was that PJ Central used Yiannis. It's from page two of their review and it's rather interesting.

Brightness. The projector has two light output settings, Normal and "Brite." Normal is the factory default, and it is in fact referred to as eco-mode in the owner's manual. The "Brite" setting puts out about 1/3 more light, and Optoma anticipates that this will reduce lamp life to 2000 hours.

We noticed a great deal more light output with a progressive scan signal than with interlaced or DVI. This phenomenon is common, but not normally to the magnitude we see it on the H77. The brightest picture was achieved with 480-progressive input in Brite lamp mode. After calibration at this setting we measured lumen output at 510 ANSI lumens. Switching to an interlaced input signal dropped the ANSI lumen reading to 320. In Normal lamp mode, the ANSI lumen reading with 480p was 385, and with 480i it was 240. The optimum operating mode is progressive scan with "Normal" lamp mode, producing 320 ANSI lumens.
 

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He's referring to whatever it was that PJ Central used Yiannis. It's from page two of their review and it's rather interesting.
Thanks Mech!!

I don't know if back in 2004 ''This phenomenon is common..'', but in 2012 sounds a little bit like wrong settings either from the source or in signal processing.
 
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