Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
221 - 240 of 305 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
just a note to thank Icaillo for providing the forum with a resourse of immeasurable value. also a note on troublshooting that hasn't been addressed during this post. i first happened on this site when researching hitachi 53uwx10b convergence issues and proceeded to make the needed IC repairs. all went well and the set returned to normal for a short while then failed again, same issues. before replacing the IC's a second time i discovered the wiring to the wall recepticle had loosened over the years and had been arcing unnoticeably causing who knows what kinds of spikes on the line. after repairing wiring to the recepticle and replacing the IC's and resistors a second time the set has worked well ever since. again, thanks.
P.S. does anyone have a favorite supplier for the tech manual for this set?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
lcaillo, thanks so much for offering up all of your expertise. By reading your postings now I know what my so called service tech did wrong, and am confident that I can fix it myself. I have a Panasonic 51hx43 that had the stk392-110's in it. I am replacing both with the stk394-160e's that you recommend. I have ordered the service manual for my set but have not received it yet, which brings me to my question. In a posting here I read that you recommend replacing the six 2.2 ohm resistors. Is that six resistors per IC, or six total? Like I said, I don't have my service manual yet, but when looking at the board it appears that there are six per IC for a total of twelve. Thanks again for the great information and your support of Scouting.
 

·
Plain ole user
Joined
·
11,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #223
Some techs have reported problems using the -160 in the panasonics, so I have gone back to using the original parts in those sets.

I do not recommend replacing resistors unless they are damaged or open. I do not recall which resistors are in each model, so check the manual or look at the board.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
lcaillo, when you say some techs have reported problems putting -160's in panasonics what does that mean? They never work,sometimes work,etc? I've received my manual and have figured out the resistor question, there are six. Thanks again for all your help and patience.
 

·
Plain ole user
Joined
·
11,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #225
I mean exactly what I said. Some have reported problems using the -160. I do not know the details beyond that, but when otherwise qualified techs tell me that they have found that in some models they did not work as expected, I don't take chances and I use the original parts. Apparently there may be something different in how the muting circuit operates between the two chips in some applications. I have not experienced the problem myself, but I don't take chances with substitute parts. When there is any doubt, use the same part that came out of the set. In the case of Panasonics that is what I recommend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
lcaillo, I followed your directions on replacing the ic's on my panasonic with the original stk392-110's instead of the 394-160's. Powered up the set and ran through the converge process in the standard "consumer" menu, and presto, it's perfect! I seem to remember a post in this thread that if you don't go into the service menus you could end up running the chips too close to thier tolerances by over adjusting. Should I leave well enough alone, or get into service mode? Thanks again for all that you do.
 

·
Plain ole user
Joined
·
11,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #227
If you don't feel you need to adjust it, don't go into the service mode. If you do make sure you have the service manual handy and review it before you start.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Even if you got the parts, unless you have the experience & equipment setting and up a TV, it will do you no good. IT is not "plug and play.
Do you have a test pattern generator ???
Do you know how to set: Raster, tracking levels, Focus, Centering rings, Fine tune convergence, White balance, Dioptics ?
Also what proper order to do them in ???
Even a service manual will not tell you all you need.

Oh and lets not forget their is over 30,000 volts stored in a TV for up to a year. Do you know what not to touch ???
You get ONE attempt to it correct.


Note: What you read on the Internet is only a guess. You guess at you own expense and risk.
A dealer assumes that risk for you and provides a warranty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Leonard Caillouet,
Sir, encouraging amateurs to do the work of trained professionals is unethical in any profession.
YOU DO NOT EXPLAIN the risks they undertake.
Electricity is dangerous.
Also, Times are tough enough for professionals to stay in business. You do them a great disservice and since you seem to be a professional you acts are counter productive, verging on traitorous, to your own profession.
Despite your terms of service... Sooner or later someone following the "advice" you provide will get injured. Especially in the Case of CRT TV's which are potentially lethal.
I only hope you are held responsible when someone gets injured.

IF you wish to work for free, then do so. Professionals take years to train and learn trade "secrets".
These honorable men & Women have a right to be paid for their valuable skills. You give away their secrets that allow this.
DIY's who are inexperienced are a danger to themselves in effort to save a few dollars. Then usually it is a professional who has to clean up the mess and then fix the original problem.

You sir have no honor and are a sellout. If you had a conscience, you would stop this practice and remove this website.

PEOPLE, Do not be cheap. BE safe. Support your local electronic professional.

Unions built this country.

Professionals Union of America
 

·
Plain ole user
Joined
·
11,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #230
If you would like to discuss the matter I am happy to do so. I know very well what the risks are, and being cautious is certainly important. The point is that many people ARE attempting these repairs themselves, with or without your or my advice. I simply give people accurate information and they can decide for themselves whether they feel confident to proceed. If you read through the forums, you will see that I am very specific in providing limited assistance for simple symptom-repair relationships that are well known. I recommend all the time that readers get professional help.

The part that many who criticize this help fail to understand is that many "professionals" know less about some of these matters than many of the DIYers here and on other forums. The notion of a "professional" is a rather sketchy one, and in many areas there is not a single tech that I would let touch anything of mine.

There is value in your advice, but do not come here expecting to preach without being challenged to discuss the matter in the context which it belongs. You are welcome to your opinion and to state it. You will, however, do so without being disrespectful and condescending.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I expected such a response. A response that soothes your "conscience".
DIY's have always existed. But providing them trade Secrets & information only encourages more of them and makes the fool hearty ones brave.
I have read your posts. You do not mention the hazards or how to work safe. You also rarely tell a viewer to call a professional when it is obvious they are in over their head.

YOU encouraged on viewer to repair a TV when the viewer did not know enough (had to ask you) not to power up a TV with missing parts !

Common sense says...You do not tell someone how to build a bomb either. (but your type might). Just as dangerous and just as lethal. IE: Information in the wrong hands is not a good thing.
Even though I can read about how to do it. Personally I would never attempt to remove my own appendix. Thats why we have doctors.. But then...Maybe you would.

I do not "preach" I said what you do not.
I was not being disrespectful. I was being honest.
I respect established ethics and people who abide by them.

SAD but only after someone gets hurt and sues you. MAYBE then you will wake up.
Good day.
 

·
Plain ole user
Joined
·
11,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #232
Obviously, you have not read many posts where I have suggested that the user get professional help.

I do accept the criticism that I could emphasize the dangers of servicing electronics and could offer more suggestions on safety. My guess is that rather than offering suggestions on how to integrate this information into the forum, you will continue to hold the opinion that the information whould not exist. This is simply not an option, so if you do have some constructive suggestions on how to make it clearer what the dangers are, please contribute.

There have always been DIYers. In fact, they have existed in cooperation with servicers for decades. The fact is that many "pros" got their start as DIYers or hobbyists, and that much of the innovation in the consumer electronics industy, much of the demand for higher performance products, and much of the sales of new technologies is driven by these DIYers that many servicers so despise.

I recognize that many shops are struggling these days and many servicers are finding it harder and harder to be profitable. The rest of the story is that it is rare to find quality servicers who are very customer friendly or reasonably priced in many markets. There are lots of what I consider to be unethical servicers in our profession and the rather poor reputation that he field has at this point is, in many cases, well deserved.

The notion that I am providing trade secrets is simply a faulty one. Nothing that I provide is not clearly and easily found in many other places and I do not pass on proprietary information such as service manuals, service bulletins, service tips from subscription sites, nor copyrighted information that is not appropriate for public use. What I have done is provide a context and organization where people can find information on how to do correctly what is often discussed on other sites in ways than can be dangerous, sloppy, or ineffective. I dispell many misconceptions and give advice based on my knowledge and experience that helps those who are unlikely to go to a professional for many valid reasons.

You are not the first to call me a traitor to the profession. I have been called much worse. Those of you who do are of limited perspective and limited understanding of the degree to which many DIYers understand electronics and their abilities.
 

·
Plain ole user
Joined
·
11,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #233

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,235 Posts
IF you wish to work for free, then do so. Professionals take years to train and learn trade "secrets".
You do them a great disservice and since you seem to be a professional you acts are counter productive, verging on traitorous, to your own profession.
Interesting. I'd have to say that I've had more bad experiences at the hands of "professional" service technicians than positive. I've had them return stuff several times exhibiting the very same problems I sent it to them to fix, had them not be able to diagnose or repair a simple intermittent remote control problem, and even had them incapable of following simple instructions like, "replace burned-out LED."

Overall, I typically dread having to turn something of mine over to a repair shop...

Regards,
Wayne
 

·
Plain ole user
Joined
·
11,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #235
Leonard Caillouet,
IF you wish to work for free, then do so. Professionals take years to train and learn trade "secrets".
These honorable men & Women have a right to be paid for their valuable skills. You give away their secrets that allow this.
DIY's who are inexperienced are a danger to themselves in effort to save a few dollars. Then usually it is a professional who has to clean up the mess and then fix the original problem.


I do not work for free. I give advice and share my experience on this forum for free, yes. That experience is also offered for free to many service techs that do not have that experience and know less than many of the DIYers that I help. I am found on many internet discussion groups, listserves, and forums and am well aware of the degree to which experience that I have is found in the many who rate themselves as electronics technicians. Many do not understand much of the basics about what they do and many have thanked me for the discussions found here. Your comments presume that there is much greater knowledge among "professionals" than is actually found in the field. Many techs really do not have a clue, yet are happy to charge hundreds of dollars for a few minutes work, only to leave a set looking worse than the DIYer would leave it.

I have been doing convergence, repairs, and calibration of displays for nearly three decades. In that time I have found the vast majority of technicians to be sloppy, lacking experience, and unwilling to learn. I have also seen hundreds of DIYers who were very detailed in their work and could do far better than the average yahoo technician. Your presumption of professionalism is inaccurate, in my experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
lcaillo,

I appreciate your advice. Don't let this guy scare you.

Once I took my car into a shop for an oil change and they added too much oil. I now do all oil changes myself. And no, I'm not a professional mechanic. And yes, I could touch a hot wire and shock myself. I could cross thread a drain plug and lose all oil. But I don't.

All DIYers who want save hundreds of dollars in this horrible economy appreciate all of the advice that we can get. I got no raise this year but my expenses keep rising. So I need all of the help that I can get. Keep it up.

mrgcav, you may know how to use all of the equipment that you mentioned but how many other pro techs out there do? My bet is that if I called a tech I would be adjusting the convergence myself like I was draining that extra quart of oil out of my car. I might pay hundreds of dollars for a repair if I could be confident in the work. I'm not.

Have a nice day.
 

·
Plain ole user
Joined
·
11,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #237
Thanks, but guys like mrgcav don't scare me, nor do I find offense in his comments. There is some value in his points. He just does not understand as much about the wider market as he thinks he does. Many techs feel as he does, and he may be a very reputable, ethical, and qualified professional. As others have said many times here and elsewhere, however, it is not so easy to find gems among the rest.

Most techs simply have no idea how many knowledgeable DIYers there actually are, nor how many hobbyists there are that understand more about their products than many techs. I am the same way you are with respect to my autos and appliances. I have had so many bad experiences that unless I know a really good tech and it is something that I cannot do myself, I DIY.

Fixing a convergence problem is not quite like removing an appendix. More like cutting your own or your kids hair. Not something that everyone should try, but with care and if you have the skill, it is unlikely that you will be dangerous with the scissors. But then, maybe some barber out there would argue that scissors and razors can be very dangerous...just like those wrenches and hot exhausts. I have to admit, I have busted a knuckle or two, burned an arm, and been hit by a charged cap before. I guess I should not be fixing my car nor servicing electronics.
 

·
Plain ole user
Joined
·
11,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #239
I think his posts could be used as a good example of what is allowed and what is not and why. I gave him some latitude and sent him email discussing the matter. I encouraged him to come in and discuss the matter and voice his opinions but without name calling and disrespect. His posts were what I call "drive by posting," where someone pops in, voices their opinion with some rather sharp jabs, then never returns to back them up with reason or facts. I suspect he will not be back, as in his email response to me he said that there is no more for him to contribute. I think that puts his comments in a pretty clear context. He claims to represent some unnamed organization of professionals involved in the service business. IMO, he has served his issue poorly by making such immature posts. It is a shame, because he could be contributing by helping to educate on the matter of safety, and engaging discussion on just when and why it makes sense to deal with a professional. He might also come to learn why so many have such a low level of respect for those that he sees as "professionals." Wayne's response was a classic example of what I hear and see all of the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
lcaillo,I completly agree with what you said about some "tech's" not knowing, or not caring, about the fix themselves. Your rules prevent me from naming names, but I was a victim of an unscrupulous "professional". After reading your forum I was able to identify the multiple things this man did wrong. Very simple things like not bothering to bolt the ic's to the heat sinks or use heat sink compound. This so called "trained professional" even intentionally broke my platic chassis for easier access to solder the ic's. Not only that but he refused to honor his 90 day warranty after 93 days. by reading your posts and a few questions that you promptly answered for me I was able to order the parts and get the set up and running again. Rest assured that most of us greatly appreciate what you do and are smart enough to know which end of a cathode tube not to touch.
 
221 - 240 of 305 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top